Of the 1500 No4 trials rifles converted to snipers

[Bindi2]

The Q was how many of the 1500 trials rifles which were made into Ts survived. Sniper rifles had a hard life and a low survival rate. Warrens rifles are No4 trials Ts not No 4ts, they still have the cutoff which was not on the No4.

[Peter Laidler]

In short, you missed something Promo!

And here's something else. I'm sure Ian won't mind me saying this now, but that mysterious 1403 figure of trials converted to T's has never been substantiated/verified/quantified in records. I had access to what remained of the records at RSAF while researching the little No4T book and had to accept defeat and simply use what was available.

But there was a bit of a sting in the tail here too. Because Jack Cartwright, who is mentioned in the book and who by dint of coincidence was a good friend of Doug Maber was the Deputy AIA (the Small Arms School rep in short.....) at Enfield and he disputed the figure after publication. And it was this that taught me to always re-chech heretofor published facts. In this case, it was/must have been/might be/almost correct but ACTUALLY correct. Nobody can say, including me who has probably researched it as good as anyone.

But like I always say - and in apology to Ian and others who have written small-arms books - the first person to read your book immediately knows more than you do. And they're always more than forthcoming in telling you! That's because they now know ALL that you have just written PLUS the tiny amount that they knew before.

[PrinzEugen]

I suppose this can only amount to a straw poll of those owned by members - just as no-one knows how many L42s, No4ts etc survived either as no records seem to have been kept.

Still - I'm all for threads containing pics of trials snipers, and I'm certainly interested to know if some are in the hands of our esteemed members.

And fear ye not Peter - your book contained all the very very small amount of information I knew already - and a whole bunch more.

[Beerhunter]

The Combined Services Museum in Malden, Essex has a Trials converted to No.4(T). I was in-correctly labelled (like may other guns from the Donnington Collection) when i was last there.

[breakeyp]

Peter's comments encouraged me to go dig in the pile and I was able to confirm that I have one of his two trials rifles converted to L42(T). I did find five No.4 Mk1 Trials (T)s as well. I think there might be some unaltered No.4s as well but they are harder to identify without sorting. I guess I am doing my part to preserve what is left of the 1500.

[PrinzEugen]

Hi breakeyp - I'd certainly love to see pics of the trials L42!

[bigduke6]

Plus one in Scotarms last year, Trials No4T (if it was the real Mcoy) definitley had not seen the the inside of an Armourers shop for a long time, same also with the scope that came with it.

[Frederick303]

I have a sported No 4 T trials rifle. Having been considering putting it back together in military form, but that would mean removing the shortened Enfield barrel.

If someone is building a database of these rifles I will send them the serial number and description.

[Peter Laidler]

If it's just the foresight blocks and bayonet lugs, then just carefully sleeve that section as discussed here several times. But this leads us on to a further point...... Just what is more original, a cut down sporter that ain't even remotely nearanything connected with originality and a trials No4T with a replacement barrel and a fore-end and..... and..... fitted at an Armourers Base workshop in the 50's - or even into the 70's. We were still doing them.

Or what about a Long Branch Lyman TP that was left at Hythe (now Warminster) after the war by trainee Dutch (some say Belgian) snipers. Been round the block, had a new M47 barrel fitted, re-phosphated etc etc. Is it just a heap of worthless tat now because it's not original. Or is it OK because of....... what? Food for thought I'd say

[Brian B]

On short notice, this was one of the quick pictures I could find. Need to pull it out and fully document it. It has been through a FTR and had a Mark 3 scope fitted (all matching numbers to the rifle).

I guess it survived via an FTR!! I shoot it and plan to continue to do so.



3rd from the bottom (And no I don't still have all of these. I have thinned down the collection considerably and only kept three all matching ones including the Trials T)