Viewpoint - British Army Contract for L96A1 Sniper Rifle (by Gil Boyd B.E.M)

[rgg_7]

The C3a1 is built on a Parker Hale M87 receiver. Barrel is similar in profile to C3 or 1200TX. Official barrel length is 60cm although other options were available 22, 24 and 26". Scope was a 10x fixed power UNERTL in a very rare one piece steel mount. Originally issued in "Beech" stocks and converted 1990's to McMillan tactical by Diemaco to current version you still see in service. We have one at our local Armory. Ron(Canada)

[bigduke6]

That's an interesting post Ron,

I sent a PM to Gil regarding a (Police Sniper Rifle M87) advertised in the UK, I didn't want this thread going off in tangents regarding all PH rifles etc after all the work Gil has done regarding the M85, but Gil did reply and as you mention the M87 think it would be a good conversation point....open to you Gil

Note to PL (We know Police are not snipers and are marksmen)

[m4carbine]

Gill,
Thanks for the article, I have an M85, C3, M82 (Australian) and 2 L96A1's, Love them all.


I do think it interesting that anytime something written about the M85 it always has a phrase that goes something like this "The M85 was judged acceptable for service by the British MOD" but always fails to mention that the MOD didn't buy it anyway. Its kind of like saying "We are losers, but we took First place". I think that it was first published in an issue of Janes Small arms.

I have chatted with a couple Canadian armorers about C3's and C3A1's, In the case of the C3, the stocks was a hugh issue, yes yes yes its replaceable but it wasn't, one of the other things was the extractor.
If you needed to replace one it needed to be hand fit by some one with a good deal of experience. They also said there was always a lack of parts availability from P-H.

[Gil Boyd]

Ron/Big Duke/Marty,

On reflection unless Doug deems us worthy of a Parker Hale slot somewhere on our own, crack on, put it on here all under one banner. No worries about that at all, keeps it tidy.
I replied to Big Duke that Beds Police in their dim distant past used the M87 and the Bushnell sight as described.
Peter Laidlaw mentioned earlier the quality of the Bushnell scopes and more importantly the price compared to the Schmidt and Bender 6x42..............loads cheaper and I mean £200 maximum and less.
They were nearly indestructible, but I'll leave Peter to talk about the inerds of the scope but it was plastic lenses and of high quality in comparison to S&B. In those days each Force had various "marksman" rifles and many tried to emulate what the Army had. All were for a very short time brought back into line with the Home Office directive making all Forces indent for the Enforcer.

Well clearly that was the first attempt at central procurement and that failed miserably as only about 767 were ordered and many went abroad to Hongkong and other UK Police trained provinces around the world, if the figures are to be believed. On a recent count there were loads more than that made, but I won't go off on a tangent thread.

Very little had changed on the M87 to my knowledge except perhaps the overall length.
I will see what papers refer to it and ask Bill Smallwood for his hands on response in the factory at the time.
Spares and the maintenance regime have always seemed to creep into reports by those charged in line to looking after them and was a major criticism from the Army Perspective. Touch wood I have fired bucket loads down my barrel and have never had an issue.
You mustn't forget also that both the Army and the Police weren't spending their own money!! Happy Days and a decision taken by usually the Firearms boss from advice to try other marksman rifles.............note I avoid the word sniper!

---------- Post added at 09:16 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:07 AM ----------

Meant to say that the price asked for the M87 was a fair one if it passes muster. A shot out M82 recently went for £320

[m4carbine]

In post 49 the brochure shows a Tasco 6X44 with the Nimrod reticle, I believe it was designed for an IDF trial. Was this scope seen in the UK trials?

<a href="http://s218.photobucket.com/user/badgerord/media/6X44Tasco.jpeg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc162/badgerord/6X44Tasco.jpeg" border="0" alt=" photo 6X44Tasco.jpeg"/></a>

The Bushnell scope discussed above, was it the 10X tactical or a different model?

[Peter Laidler]

I would VERY much doubt that that was a scope that was used on UK trials Marty simply because the turrets would be just tooooooo vulnerable/fragile. Sticking out there like a bulldogs balls, they wouldn't last 5 minutes during a stalk. That's only my opinion knowing what they're subject to. Even the 6x 42 green S&B turrets were subject to constant complaints. Once they were knocked the two screws would pull and that would effectively be the end of the scope. Sometimes you could save them but.......

I will try and find out the Bushnell that was very good and come back

[Gil Boyd]

Big Duke,
Speaking to Bill, he remembers clearly the M87 and has them recorded in a separate ledger which I will have hold of soon.
If you can imagine his books go from the floor to the ceiling, so it will be a few days until we get to numbers and Forces that used them, but they are recorded and the record is in our hands!

---------- Post added at 02:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:08 PM ----------

Nigel,
Total M85's made was just over the 1000 until records can be found in the pile to corrobate the exact numbers. I should know in the next few days mate, and I'll get back to you.

[bigduke6]

Thanks Gil,,

Must apologize for the late reply, but have been playing catch up since I got home last week and up to my neck in paper trying to write a letter to Richard Branson about his Trains and the folk he employs, without the F word creeping in..... more on that in the Watering Hole forum.

Will be interesting regarding M87 figures and also the calibres they produced.

[Gil Boyd]

OK will get back to you on that

[ChrisF]

To my by knowedge the Aussies like NZ , only used the older C3/M82 rifles , and NOT the M85 as has been posted here .
Also as to the Aussies saying " we only have the M85s as the AI PM/L96 is not available ", REALLY , they are from the same time frame peroid , maybe some one needs to call Mr Spock on that one .

Any way I like my PHs , and feel they deserve to still be made , why , just look at all the different in the main rubbish put out my makers today .

I have high end factory & custom rifles using custom actions , and of them all , the 2 I use the most in 308 are my PH M85 & my AI AW , I appreciate the things both of these great rifles bring to the table , different , but similar , both real solid tuff shooters .

Heres a pic of my C3A1 clone .