A very specific question re. SMLE No1Mk3 (NO star!)

[Roger Payne]

LSA sometimes seem to have been rather late in changing over to the 'latest pattern' of equipment; I have a LSA 1917 Mk3 (no volleys but cut off & windage rear sight) & a 1916 LSA complete with volleys. The rifles have not been mucked about with & are not later retro-conversions from Mk3*'s.

Never say never........!

ATB

[Brit plumber]

LSA sometimes seem to have been rather late in changing over to the 'latest pattern' of equipment; I have a LSA 1917 Mk3 (no volleys but cut off & windage rear sight) & a 1916 LSA complete with volleys. The rifles have not been mucked about with & are not later retro-conversions from Mk3*'s.

Never say never........!

ATB

I've also heard of 1918 LSAs with the cut off and windage sight, I can only assume that perhaps LSA changed to Non volley sighted wood in 1916 then. I also have a BSA dated 1917 Mk3 with the cut off slot yet I've seen a 1916 BSA Mk3* with no slot. They must of had hundreds of bodies sat in various stages of the manufacturing process awaiting the next machine.

[Roger Payne]

A lot of the ex-Italian Navy batch of SMLE's that are available at the moment are retro-converted Mk3*'s back to Mk3 configuration (cut off but no volleys; sometimes wind gauges). However, I'm presuming that what BP is referring to is rifles that were originally made as Mk3's. The ones issued to the Italian Navy were supposedly either from the RN or RCN & it is well known that the Navy did not like the absence of the cut off, retro converting many rifles after WW1. They are generally easy to recognise, often with the seriffed 'N' to the L side of the butt socket & the '*' of the mark designation officially barred through.

I know BSA started producing the Mk3* body before it was even officially sanctioned in the LoC & I have a 1915 dated example somewhere. But this, together with the fact that Mk3 rifles were being produced late in the war probably is indeed indicative that production lines changed over at different times & that existing stockpiles of otherwise good rifle bodies were not to be wasted.

ATB

[Steve H. in N.Y.]

I have an all original 1917 LSA with volley sights and cutoff but a non-windage back sight.

[5thBatt]

LSA sometimes seem to have been rather late in changing over to the 'latest pattern' of equipment; I have a LSA 1917 Mk3 (no volleys but cut off & windage rear sight) & a 1916 LSA complete with volleys. The rifles have not been mucked about with & are not later retro-conversions from Mk3*'s.

Never say never........!

ATB

But a 1917 LSA MkIII (no volleys but cut off & windage rear sight) was the "latest pattern" for a MkIII in 1917

[Roger Payne]

I was just referring to the fact that the Mk3 had progressed to the Mk3* officially in January 1916 (2nd, I think - speaking from memory here, but no doubt somebody can quote the LoC verbatim), so from then onwards the SMLE Mk3* was the latest current pattern service arm, yet newly manufactured Mk3 rifles are regularly encountered from after this date; some are post WW1 retro conversions, but not all.

[JerryEAL]

I agree I just posted a few pictures a few weeks ago of my 1916 LSA and it also did not have the Vollley sight. Incidentally today I picked a number of 1916 C/|\ Headstamped Dominion Arms rounds today to go with my LSA. Makes those lonely stripper clips look perfect!

[5thBatt]

I was just referring to the fact that the Mk3 had progressed to the Mk3* officially in January 1916 (2nd, I think - speaking from memory here, but no doubt somebody can quote the LoC verbatim), so from then onwards the SMLE Mk3* was the latest current pattern service arm, yet newly manufactured Mk3 rifles are regularly encountered from after this date; some are post WW1 retro conversions, but not all.

The Loc of 1916 introduced in part 1 changes to the future manufacture of the MkIII
Part 2 introduced the MkIII*

The MkIII* evolved from the MkIII not the MkIII evolved into the MkIII*
The omission of the Volley sights etc were all changes applied to the MkIII but as the MkIII* was the same as a MkIII (but with out the cutoff) the changes applied to it as well.

[Roger Payne]

Thanks for the quote & the clarification. Perhaps then we should be surprised that there are not more late WW1 Mk3 rifles about?

[louthepou]

And silly me, I thought this refurb was going to be simple.

Many thanks for all the info, folks. I will post progress reports. I likely will go for a volley sight, but as mentioned finding the correct forend may be difficult (within my financial capacity)

Lou