Dutch Carbine

[Aragorn243]

Lucked into finding another one at an auction last night and will be picking it up this evening.

This one is also dated 1906 and the exterior is in much better condition than the first. Bluing is probably 90% with a few spots of light surface rust. Bolt is in the white also with some light surface rust. Bore is questionable which is the downside but the description if from an AR guy that has little experience with old milsurps so I hope it is OK. Comes with a canvas sling which looks like it belongs to it but I've not been able to match it to known examples.

I also can't type the rifle. It is a carbine but its characteristics don't fit any descriptions exactly. It has an upper hand guard which is the same length as the stock. It has a bayonet lug. Sling swivels are on the bottom and do not appear to have been moved. I can't see any filled areas on the sides in the photos. There is not a wood side plate on the magazine and there are no attachments for one. Best fit appears to be a police issue.

All visible numbers on the rifle match, it has no import mark. The stock date is later, 1922 so it probably went through an arsenal rebuild. Stock is serialed and matches the metal parts.

[HOOKED ON HISTORY]

Beautiful!

[Aragorn243]

I Just got back from picking up the rifle. It's in great shape. Bore is as I had hoped. There is some light rust in there but I think it will clean out nicely. Lands and grooves are very sharp, does not look to be much of any wear. The guy I got it from was great. I'm hoping he might be able to come across a few other rifles that I'm after. I'm completely exhausted from the round trip and a big bowl of Bruster's ice cream so more details tomorrow. I'll take some better pics too.

[Aragorn243]

Took it apart today to clean it. No exterior pitting on it anywhere. Almost looks like a new rifle metal wise. All numbers everywhere match. Interior of stock and handguard also marked. Bore cleaned up nicely. Some very light rust residue in there that needs a little more work or a few hot rounds down the barrel to clean out. cosmoline pretty heavy under the handguard. Turned the sling around, they had it inside out. Wiped down the stock with some linseed oil rags and fine steel wool and aside from the hundreds of dings it cleaned up well. Cartouche had some hard residue in it that obscured the letters a bit but it softened up with the linseed oil and wiped out. Pics will follow shortly. I'd like some opinions on the sling in particular as to where it came from and if it is Dutch or not. It looks good on the rifle in any case and will stay.

[Aragorn243]

Some photos after clean up.

[Aragorn243]

Of all the rifles I own, I think this one has the least available information. Not a single video other than a book review and not too much definitive information on them The book review said there are 30 distinct variations. No ammo available at present either. My Mannlicher Military Rifles book has a chapter devoted to them but even that doesn't provide a lot of information.

[HOOKED ON HISTORY]

Wow cleaned up very nicely.

[Aragorn243]

Ammo and dies is now the quest. I actually found wooden bullet blanks over the weekend and bought one clip of five. Guy wanted $15 each for them which I thought was nuts as he insisted they were live rounds and not blanks but just to have a set I bought one.

I've read some conflicting information about reloading dies. One group says you can use the Greek Mannlicher dies for this as they are the "same" other than the rim and that should involve only a different shell holder. The second group says they are not the "same" and you must have Dutch Mannlicher dies, chief reason being the shoulder dimension.

I did some comparisons in my Cartridges of the World book and they are indeed different but close. Closer it seems than the 303 British cases they are formed from. As a set of Greek dies runs about $26-$40 and a set of Dutch dies (if you can find any) seem to be $120-$140 it would be great if the Greek dies would work.

Buffalo Arms sells the cartridges but are currently out of stock but taking orders. I suspect they wait until they have enough to make it worthwhile. At $60 a box, you'd think a box would be worthwhile.

You have to love those old guys at flea markets. Insisted over and over that these wood bullets were not blanks and the clip alone is worth $15 as he knows that's what Carcano clips go for and these are even more rare. He also said he couldn't explain why the bullets were wood as no one could tell him their purpose. I told him their purpose but it went in one ear and out the other. I suppose I should have told him the Dutch had a vampire problem between the wars and he probably would have believed that, probably would have upped the price do to the "Twilight" popularity. Upon informing him that Carcano clips can easily be acquired for $5 each, often less and Dutch clips for $8 I got the usual, "You should buy them all and make a fortune then" after insisting that I didn't have a clue what I was talking about. I didn't argue with him, I bought the one clip with cartridges as a curiosity and left. I've since located clips for $4 for the Dutch.