Current Bogus Auctions

[ChipS]

he does do a decent job of assembling a representative carbine in WW2 trim.

My original observation. BTW, when I previously noted "It's just business." I meant it was just business to him - not me. I certainly do not condone selling put-togeter carbines without a full disclosure. And even then you have no control over what the buyer discloses if/when he re-sells. This is a major dilema, along with enabling the parting out of substantially as-issued carbines, that I am very concerned about at this point. FWIW. ChipS

[tenOC]

Only a couple people are doing this over and over for profit.

I am brand new to the collecting business of carbines. I guess my thought is, how do you know if someone is pulling your leg or not? He must have a huge stock pile of parts to pull something like this off.
So he buys the receiver, barrel, etc. then matches it with a stock he has, then passes them off as original. How would you be able to tell if he did it or if it was an arsenal rebuild?
I'm guessing the only way would be an arsenal stamp on the stock...
I'm wondering now if someone did that to me for the two that I bought.

Our friend here bought the receiver and replaced the barrel then added the other parts including some reproduction parts and stock stamp. Flip sight, mag catch are reproduction parts. Probably the safety and hammer too.

[JimF4M1s (Deceased)]

It is happening more then most think. A few seem to do a better job then others. They part out mix masters and then use those parts to assemble what appears to be complete carbines.

Getting a book or two can help. But it would not be the save all. Newer people don't always have the expertise to search out the replaced items. As always it's buyer beware. Pictures don't give you the same opportunity to look it over like having it in hand. One reason to ask about their return policy.

Depending on how the weapon is priced, you might be able to take a chance. But if it gets up into original carbine price range, that would be time to do more homework. There are still gems out there. Hidden in closets that relatives have no clue what they are worth and a great deal might be available. But online sales people know what they have and/or what they have done to it. The old saying it if looks like too good of a deal, it usually is.

[ChipS]

I have been collecting about 12 years and I am a FNG compared to a lot of guys in this forum. But I will give you some benefit of my experience. Your carbines may or may not be what you thought you were paying for at the time. If you are new to the game and have never been skinned you are the exception and not the rule. What may have happened (or not) in the past is water under the bridge and I would recommend you do not try to pass on any costly mistakes to the next guy with less experience than you - you will probably sleep better.

How do you tell the difference between real and reproduction? You look and many, many, many carbines and parts of carbines and many, many, many GOOD photographs of carbines and carbine parts. You compare the appearance of the items you see and how others with more experience than you react to the items, then you identify the common characteristics (good and bad) of the item and make your final assessment based upon what you see and have learned. Eventually you may be right 95% of the time. Look at parts on the auction sites that get good bids and the ones that don't. Be very anal and look very closely at every detail of each part. You will recognize certain patterns in manufacture (shapes, milling cuts, etc), wear patterns and finish patina that will appear pretty consistently in most original parts. There are minute variations in manufactureing processes peculiar to individual manufacturers but to recognize most of these requires an expert eye, beyond the scope of this response and my expertise. Rule: If it doesn't look like it could be 70 years old it probably isn't (corollary: If it looks like it was made last month it probably was).

Some original parts are rare and some are common. TenOC pointed out some carbine parts that are commonly reproduced because they are not common in the market and so they are costly to add to the put-together carbine. Some parts are relatively cheap to reproduce and some are very costly. Some reproduction parts can provide a good return to the faker and some cannot compete with the market price of the plentiful originals. It's still the law of supply and demand. Fortunately, the costs of duplicating the exact original manufacturing processes and convincingly aging the finished reproduction parts seriously cuts into the fakers profit in most cases, so this gives us a leg up in identifying the fakes.

Finally, do not believe any carbine or carbine part (or anything else for that matter) is original and/or "correct" just because one person tells you it is. Particularly if that person is selling the item. And as far as I am concerened there are NO exceptions to this - period. If you don't believe it is 100% real based upon your own personal observation and knowledge then you probably should walk away, or accept the possibility of a skinning. Sorry so long. Weather is bad and nothing to do tonight. Hope this helps. JMHO. ChipS

[Bill Hollinger]

In auctions I looked at are the omission of words like original", "genuine" and "real". I've often wondered if George were somehow involved in Sam's dealings.

[WarPig1976]

I caught that too, he's not lying but he ain't telling you everything either.

[ChipS]

In auctions I looked at are the omission of words like original", "genuine" and "real".

Absolutely. I always look for these words in an auction, but rely mainly only on the photos. Unfotunately some sellers do lie. I am embarrassed to admit that (years ago) I was sold a brand new knock-off push safety twice by the same bait-and-switch artist on eBay, about a year apart, and with the same "original' (worn and salty) looking photo and "Original WWII" description. That's when I started the seller "list". Bottom line, IMHO auction photographs can be deceiving and descriptions are even less reliable. So, short of a face to face purchase, you do the best you can with what information and knowledge you have at the time. ChipS

[Hired_gun]

He was selling as "Al-Sam-Bob" on ebay back in the day. Everyone wanted to believe he was selling good stuff, and few items were, but for the most parts, they were reproduction junk. I tried to warn folks that he was getting his stuff from the same place George was getting his, L&S Supply.

I was a cheat then and is now, only now on a larger scale

[USGI]

Here's the latest restification out of Alabama.

M1 Carbine - '43 Standard Products : Curios & Relics at GunBroker.com


And he's how he bought it last month.

M1 carbine barreled reciever : Semi Auto Rifles at GunBroker.com

Sold this evening for $2K - amazing! - Bob

[jimb16]

$1245 increase! You can't tell me he paid that much for the parts! Even if the parts were all real!