Ishapore Sht LE Mk I*** advice requested

[Colonel Enfield]

I encountered an interesting rifle the other day which I'd appreciate some thoughts on.

It is an ERI-marked, 1908 dated Ishapore SMLE Mk I***, with windage-adjustable sights (Mk VII ammunition) and the cut-off still present.

However, none of the serial numbers match. The bolt has the correct round cocking knob but also has a South African ownership mark on it (couldn't see any SA marks anywhere else on the rifle), the fore-end has a different serial number to the action or bolt, the bore is terrible and the woodwork is in fairly average shape, even factoring int the possibility it's more than a century old.

I was able to have a pretty good look at the rifle but unfortunately wasn't in a position to take photos (I know, helpful - sorry). The seller is asking $650 for it and while I think I know Lee-Enfields pretty well, I have to admit I'm not really an expert on the earlier SMLE models because I very rarely see them.

I guess what I'm trying to work out is whether the Mk I*** is some extremely rare variant of SMLE that's not commonly encountered (or not from that era/manufacturer) and therefore the rifle might worth acquiring as a collectible piece as a result, or whether the rifle in question is more likely to be a parts gun assembled around an old but not particularly remarkable action.

Any thoughts?

Information

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[Wayne T]

Hard to be sure without pictures, I'm leaning towards the latter.

[RCS]

I do not know if this will help or not, but I have two rifles 1) BSA Mark 1** IP s/n 36742
with the upgrade markings on the other side R^F 1917, new barrel has a matching number with exc bore and HV stamp. Nose cap, rear sight, fore-end wood all matching.

2) Enfield 1903 Mark 1** IP s/n 37988 with upgrade makings on the other side R^F 1914
also new barrel with exc bore and matching serial number. Fore-end and rear sight matching and dial plate milled flat. both of these rifles were fitted with a solid bridge charger loading guide.
These rifles were upgraded to Mark 111 but I understand were still Mark 1** IP Attachment 52872Attachment 52873Attachment 52874Attachment 52875Attachment 52876Attachment 52877Attachment 52878Attachment 52879Attachment 52880

[Ridolpho]

Photos would be a great help! I am under the impression that unconverted SMLE Mk I's are quite rare (the *** pattern was mainly a sight modification for Mk VII). Are there indications on the left cheek of where the upgrade to Mk I*** was carried out? I don't believe Edwards (Consortium Press, 2000) mentions an Indian Mk I*** but I could be wrong. He does imply that the majority of Ishapore Mk I's were converted to MK I**IP. As to price, I recently bougfht an excellent MkI*** (inc excellent bore) for $1000.00 Can. Based on some recent importations I think prices are relatively consistant across the 49th so $#650.00 for a mismatch may be high but not terribly out of line. I'd probably buy it with a little more info. Good luck!

Ridolpho

[Lance]

You have to check to see what the seller has.

There are three major versions of the SMLE Mk I** IP; one's converted from SMLE Mk I rifles, one's converted from early SMLE Mk III's and one's converted from MLM/MLE's. RCS's beautiful examples are on the first and most common and numerous type.

From what you initially described you have an ultra rare Ishapore SMLE Mk I* IP that was upgrated later to a SMLE Mk I***. Ishapore only made 3,020 betweem 1907-09. An example of a Ishapore SMLE Mk I regardless of condition is an excellent find for a collector. Grab it if you can and post pic's!!

Attached are photo's of mine, the only one I have seen. No RFI conversion marks on the right reciever as seen

[Colonel Enfield]

Thanks for the info, everyone! The markings on the wristguard are the same as the the photos that Lance so helpfully posted.

There was no charger bridge present (as I recall) and the butt had a disc in it but I couldn't read any useful info on it. Although the rifle had the windage adjustable sights, it did not have the volley sights on it. The wood was very dark as well.

From what Lance is saying, the rifle might be worthwhile because of the action. I may have to give this some more thought...

[RobD]

Are you sure about South African markings on the bolt?
Reason I ask, I have seen U on SMLE bolt heads, but without a broad arrow, and I didn't think this meant S Africa. Don't recall having seen S African markings on bolts, but I could be wrong. Have been before.

[Lance]

"U" on the bolt is "difference in specification (un-hardened or un-tempered)"

[Colonel Enfield]

Interesting - I saw the "U" on the bolt and figured it was Union of South Africa. I don't think there was a Broad Arrow in it so it's possible it's not a ZA bolt. Un-hardened/un-tempered doesn't sound like a desirable state of affairs for a bolthead on a military rifle, though...