I think I understand the fore-end fitting finally... I think?

[corco]

Reviving a topic from an old tread on fore-end fitting.

Getting the most accuracy from a No. 4 MK1*

I think I understand the fore-end fitting finally... I think?

I am finally restoring a 1942 Long Branch No 4 Mk 1 that I bought back in 1998 for $30 USD.

I read Mr. Laidlers articles and the thread above and finally a light bulb light up above my head.

I have my L.B disassembled so I verified that the King screw is the pivot point of the fore-end and I found that the barrel actually presses down on the fore-end with about 7 - 9 lbs of pressure, I am guessing, on my rifle. Because of this then the rear of the fore-end locks up against the butt socket. Does that sound about right?

Another thing is I think my stock may have shrunk because I smeared my wife’s lip stick ( with her permission of course) on the butt socket (because I don't have Prussian Blue) to see where the fore-end touches the butt stock socket.

Unfortunately only the upper part of the rear of the fore-end is where the metal tie-plate is touches the butt stock socket. The bottom of the fore-end does not appear to have a noticeable gap between it and the butt socket. The draws seem to also have adequate contact (used lip stick on them too). I circled the points of contact in yellow in the picture.

So I was wondering if a good overnight soaking in pure raw linseed oil would help things out? Do I need to mix the pure raw linseed oil with anything else?

Thank you again. I seem to have the Enfield bug and have a lot of questions lately.

Corco

Attachment 54784Attachment 54783

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[corco]

Additionally regarding the trigger guard and the king screw area,

I used lip stick on the trigger guard as well and this is the general area in yellow that the trigger guard has good contact in the king screw area. I did not have the collar installed because it did not come with one. Do I need to remove a wisker of wood from this area to allow more contact with the tigger guard by the magizine sides or is this good enough?

Attachment 54785

Thanks again,

Corco

[ssj]

I am having the same "entertainment" as you. From the pictures you have drawn it doesnt look too bad. I'll give my thoughts and we'll see what others say, though the topic has been flogged to death so they might ignore us.

Kingscrew (PL will have nightmares, its SCREW, trigger guard, front) picture and lipstick. that looks about right for my 2 guns as well. I have a brand new un-issued stock I am fitting and that contact pattern looks identical to the area I have (on 3 stocks actually). I use wd40 and flour btw.

7~9lbs front load, sounds high, I'd cut some 5 and 10 thou brass shim in 3/4" wide and 1" long strips and put one then the other under the re-enforce and see what that does to the nose loading. Hopefully you will see a reduction. Note that in the area just behind the main screw should still be in firm contact with the wood, I place a paper strip in there and tighen up with the shim on the re-enforce. If the paper can be pulled out after tightening, well it will shoot badly, stringing vertically.

If even with the 10thou strip you have that lipstick contact still and can get various nose loads to try, go shoot and report back. I am about to do the very same thing. I am just assembling the second no4 and fixing up my P14 to go try.

The wrist is actually a very complex point as well, as you sand off the back part of the forewood to get a flatter area that part can sink deeper into teh wrist lightening the nose load. It has frankly been driving me potty.

[ssj]

Some pics, cant seem to add them to go in the earlier post.

First pic, flour, looks similar to yours, this is an un-issued stock for an as issued rifle.

In the middle pic you can see my epoxy'd bedding for the re-enforce, the brass shim goes just there. That size and shape of the bed is supposed to be the best for accuracy, this is my target gun. Also in the middle you can see the darker outline of the receiver in the wood. This is my target gun not the first "as issued" one (which is the first pic). The third is replacing the "draws" with brass pads, you can then shim behind them to get alignment of the barrel down the stock channel and then tightness. Way easier to do than wooden draws, but not kosher. Pads were a common job here in OZ/NZ, on target guns, they are usually copper but can be aluminium or brass. I am using brass screws but steel is common which seems silly as that might damage the receiver over time.

[ssj]

On your diagram to stop the right red arrow movement I fitted 2 screws to the upper surface proud by 1mm or so and screwed them in and out til I got the position I wanted, measured the protrusion and epoxyed in wooden pads that thick. When the trigger guard is installed it should be putting a little pressure onto the stock trying to push it in, not much as the trigger guard will bend. I have more pictures to make this clearer but I have not uploaded them off the iphone yet.

Note it may well be Im leading you down the garden path, but this is how Im doing it, not knowing better.

[villiers]

I´ve spent (and wasted) a lot of time doing most of the above on my Enfield, and have no regrets (I´m an old age pensioner). But, like most things in life, accurising changes one of the parameters that contribute to the compromise of a service rifle and "gilding the lily" is not only destructive, according to the bard, it´s a ... "wasteful and ridiculous excess". My Enfield can no longer be considered as a "service rifle", designed to operate in the climatic extremes from Northern Canada to Australia and is slowly becoming exotic.

[RobD]

Corco, you write: "I did not have the collar installed because it did not come with one.".

But, you do need one - if not, you are relying on the springiness of the crushed wood under the trigger guard to give you a reliable bedding, and it is not going to be reliable for long.

You should get a collar and trim it to length
(see article by Peter Laidler on how to do this:
http://photos.imageevent.com/badgerd...0correctly.pdf )

If you can't get a collar, you can make one. Use your Dremel to slice off a suitable piece of an old steel tubular-shafted golf club. It is the springiest, toughest steel money can buy.

[Peter Laidler]

Regarding the issues that crop-up with the drawers or is it draws.....? I am a firm believer in wood adheres to wood school of thought and if you put in different types and shapes of metal, then you are STILL transferring the tapered load - such as it is from the lugs on the rifle rearwards but you're simply putting a sheet of something else between the fore-end and the rifle drawers. If that makes sense! The only advantage that I can see is that the area, as shown by SSJ's pics (thread 4, pic 3) is that the load AREA is spread over a greater area. What difference this would make is dubious but I accept that it's a greater area than the norm.

The BIGGEST killer of drawers are turkeys........ Turkeys of the human kind! The real, true turkeys are those that will insist in continually stripping their rifle against the teachings of the 'if it ain't broke don't keep fixin' it' part of the population. And while they strip the bloody thing, they will insist in pulling the fore-end DOWN from the fore-end tip at the muzzle. This ain't going to allow the rear end that's a tight fit in between the but socket and drawers taper area. All it does is bruise the fore-end a bit more and more until after a few goes, it WILL pull away using the fore-end cap at the muzzle.

To remove a correct fore-end you MUST just loosen the rear end by tapping down on the most rear top left and right ledges. Allow it to break free from the taper and bring it clear.

The late great man, Mr Ayley, bless him, taught us the No4 rifle technical and mechanical part (repairs were later.....) and beat this fact into us. If he saw you stripping a rifle down wrongly, he gently clonked you on the head with the fore-end. I say 'gently' in a 60's way of describing gently. Where a gentle clonk on the head meant that you knew about it!

[ssj]

Ah yes the gentle "clonk".....I had forgotten about those....

[corco]

The idea to use a golf club shaft is great... There are a few clubs I would like to break. :-) There is a reason why golf is a four letter word. It is a sport for people who like to curse outdoors.