serial No's

[agent-47]

Hi, I have seen loads of forums where people start of with "Hi, I have just received a Lee Enfield and I want to know more about it?"
Well I suppose I am not much different. However, I already know where and when my "New to me" Lee Enfield was made.

I had it transferred to my local dealer after purchasing it from interstate, when I visited my dealer to check all is good can you imagine my shock when he said it was an TFR or had been refurbished at some point, his explanation was that the serial No's were etched instead of stamped and that the serial was not "normal". Well I have researched endlessly and have found that my serial no's are normal and that they are correct for year and place of manufacture. the rifle was sold as "unissued and unfired" looking at it it looks about right, 100% immaculate.

However, I have only seen snippets on the net about "Electra Etching", as far as I can tell Lee Enfield's made at Fazarkely in the UK in the mid to late 50s along with the Jungle Carbine were Electra Etched, also Fazarkely reduced the amount of marking the rifles.

The serial No of my rifle is UF 55 AXXXXX, would someone be able to clarify my findings?

Most appreciated.

Information

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[agent-47]

HI, Maybe by looking through this site I have answered my own question, I have had a look at the post of "Late Issue Fazakerley No4 Mk2 – Mike Metz Collection" on this forum and the serial no and the way it is etched is exactly the same as mine, his is A127XX Mine is A157XX.

[Peter Laidler]

No. Fazakerley were notorious for using a pantograph mounted electric pencil - or 'scratchy pen' to us Armourers - to number their weapons. It would dissolve at the first sight of the bead blasting cabinet or in Malaya, the start of the monsoon season - and thereafter cause no end of trouble. Fazakerley Sten guns and Sterling guns were the same. So to make things easy we just used to renumber them with stamps but only on the butt socket.

The fact that Fazakerley were still making a 30's designed rifle in the mid 50's and FTRing old wartime Sten guns (until they were shut down) when the rest of the world was gearing up to produce modern, current, semi automatic rifles tells you all you really need to know about Fazakerley.

Luckily for Australia, strike and industrial dispute plagued Fazakerley couldn't/wouldn't get to grips with this modern approach so all of the recently installed L1A1 rifle producing machinery was shipped out pronto to a place that could utilise it. Lithgow! That's todays history lesson........

[Brian Dick]

An excellent one at that!

I didn't know ROF(F) sent their L1A1 tooling to Lithgow!! Didn't the LE No.4 tooling go to Pakistan?

---------- Post added at 12:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:04 PM ----------

As for the No.4Mk.2. Yours is perfectly normal agent-47. I have hundreds of them through this place. Enjoy it.

---------- Post added at 12:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:05 PM ----------

I've had

[Peter Laidler]

Another mistaken urban Myth Brian. The Fazakerley stuff went into a long term Ministry of Supply deep preservation storeage facility near High Wycombe where due to the lack of understanding about deep preservation, it just rotted out. It was the BSA No4 manufacturing stuff that went to Pakistan. BSA were required to keep the plant and machinery on a care and maintenance basis for 10 years following completion of the last rifle contracts. It was later used for some small orders of spare parts just to keep it running I suppose because even the Fazakerley MANUFACTURING facility had ceased* then too don't forget (FTR and spare parts were still being produced) So 10 years after the last No4 rifles were produced BSA who now owned the stuff but who were prohibited from making No4's and No8's commercially (but we'll overlook the mistaken selling of No8's commercially to NZ and another nation (-which I think said was S/Africa but another member of the Commonwealth - but I could well be wrong.....) promptly sold it off and used the space to gear up to produce the L1A1.

* Production started again later but although it will never be for certain, it was said that the new production bodies were those left over from late '40's production No4 and 5 bodies. Even the No8's were only converted bodies. And even the first L39's were left over new bodies

[Brian Dick]

Interesting stuff. I remember several years ago when Century Arms imported a pile of No.4Mk.2 wood work that was dirty but never fitted Pakistani production with the "P in a square" mfg 's mark. It was so ugly I actually felt like a risk taker buying several sets at SAR East in York, PA. The wood cleaned up beyond belief into the most lovely Turkish walnut you ever did see!

You're correct about the South African purchase of No.8Mk.1 rifles from BSA because I've had them with both NZ and S/A ownership marks on them. I think all of the BSA No.8 trainers I've had through here sported converted No.5 bodies. I still have one NZ contract but it needs spiffing up and a patch on the toe of the buttstock. One of these days……..

[agent-47]

Hi,

Thank you Peter and Brian for your input and putting my mind at rest I will certainly enjoy my perfectly normal No4 Mk2.