Digging in a Loose Ammo Bin

[Aragorn243]

Always on the lookout for hard to find calibers, especially as I have three for which I have no viable ammo for.

Possibly found one cartridge each for two of them today.

The first I believe is a Dutch Mannlicher cartridge but it does not fit the headstamp format of known examples that I could find.

At the 12 o'clock position is a "29"

At the 6 o'clock position is a weird shaped "U" or "V" followed by 60.

The second I believe is a Dutch Beaumont made out of a 348 Winchester Cartridge. Bullet appears to be of correct diameter for the bore at the muzzle and the cartridge slides in and out of the chamber easily and does not rattle around. The extractor however does not pick it up, nor does the bolt pick it up from the magazine. It is loose in the magazine which leads me to believe the cartridge is not correct or the spring mechanism isn't working properly. Cartridge length is 2 17/32 inches long with a flat tipped bullet. Case length is 1 7/8th inches long, neck appears to start at 1 1/8 inches.

Any help determining what these are would be appreciated.

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[Bruce_in_Oz]

The 6.5 x 53R was also used by the Romanians.

Some more info at:

International Ammunition Association {iaaforum.org} - View topic - 6.5 X 53R rim thickness

Have a buch of cases, clips and cartridges "somewhere" here..................

[Aragorn243]

If you want to get rid of them, let me know. I'm not having much luck finding them. I have 5 blank rounds and this one cartridge if it indeed turns out to be one. I don't recall where I put the blanks to compare.

[Patrick Chadwick]

...
The first I believe is a Dutch Mannlicher cartridge but it does not fit the headstamp format of known examples that I could find.

At the 12 o'clock position is a "29".
At the 6 o'clock position is a weird shaped "U" or "V" followed by 60...

The format seems to be that of the "Artillerie Inrichtingen, Zaandam" (Zaandam Arsenal).

29 = year of manufacture. The "U" or "V" is the batch code. The 60 is ??? A good photo would be helpful.

[Aragorn243]

You know, it's pretty scary when you do a web search for Zaandam Arsenal and this thread comes up as the third result.

I'll try to get some photos of both up shortly. I'm going to try to find my blanks first and the wife has plans for something called Christmas that seems to be interfering with many activities these days.

[Patrick Chadwick]

You know, it's pretty scary when you do a web search for Zaandam Arsenal and this thread comes up as the third result...

I think that is what could be termed "self-referential" = going round in circles!


BTW: try entering "Zaandam" and "Peter the Great".

[Aragorn243]

Decided to give up on finding the blanks for now.

Dimensions seem to be close for the "Beaumont" but it does not fit in the magazine well tightly. Could be a spring issue that I have to check into. Could be Egyptian maybe.

[Patrick Chadwick]

... the Mannlicher head stamp is 29 D 60


Now to the mystery cartridge:

348 has a head diameter that is way undersized for an Egyptian Remington or for a Beaumont. And in the photo it looks as if the bottom 1/4" of the case was turned down a few thou. - or is that just the unsized portion of the original 348? It really would have been a good idea if you had measured the neck diameter and the bullet diameter (hint! hint!).


The very short, almost vestigial neck looks rather like the .43 (or 11x47R) Spanish/Whitney carbine. But then, the 348 would have been impossibly fat...
You need to get hold of a slide gauge or micrometer and produce more accurate measurements than those made by laying the cartridge down beside a rule - and the photo is too dark to make any useful estimates of the various diameters.

[Aragorn243]

I'm not sure I have a gauge. If not, I'll try to get one. Not like I won't use it in the future.

So you are confirming that the Mannlicher is Dutch?

[Patrick Chadwick]

...

So you are confirming that the Mannlicher is Dutch?

As far as I can tell from here - yes.