Lithgow Rifles Survey

[CINDERS]

Hi Homer we may have and I am trying to remember the details I know it still has the 21 barrel in it and it is as stated will not accept the .300.5" gauge, I have only the information supplied to me by the dealer I brought it off it took me 4 years to convince him to sell it and that it was going to a good home especially with the dble stich scabb '21 Lithgow and same for the '21 Lithgow 07 bayonet serialled to the rifle for $650.00 I feel happy with that lot.
I have not fired it and probably never will as I have others that do the work.

If you can recall what we talked about that would help.....

[Homer]

No I can't recall but it doesn't matter. Good on you it's a nice one.

[ufo8mydog]

I have been following this thread with interest and thought I would post this rifle.

It is very similar to the rifle posted by Son except the action is dated 1936 not 1929.

As is the rifle posted by Son, the barrel on this rifle is also dated 12/39 and the butt is also stamped 1940. The rifle also falls into the same serial number range with this rifle being B25543 only 100 or so off the rifle posted by son which is B254XX.

Which beggars the question why are the action dates separated by 7 years however the serial number is only 100 or so numbers different.

My personal opinion is that the action was not assembled into a rifle until 1940 as is indicated by the date stamped on the butt and the barrel date being 12/39. I can not see anything on this rifle to indicate that it underwent any sort of refurbishment in 1939 or 1940.

[Homer]

You'd be 100% right mate.

That is a very nice example of a rare year in Lithgow production. Deserving of its own thread for those who appreciate the hard to find lithgows.
For the record, every 1936 action I've seen was assembled in 1940. That would be a total of four I think.

[muffett.2008]

The change of the GR proof must have been later than 1940, both of these have 1941 dated receivers.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../B69002c-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../B68727e-1.jpg

What S/N prefix have they got? I have two 41's with a D prefix and both have the later type Proof.

[5thBatt]

What S/N prefix have they got? I have two 41's with a D prefix and both have the later type Proof.

[5thBatt]

What S/N prefix have they got? I have two 41's with a D prefix and both have the later type Proof.

The assembly of D prefixed rifles began end of 1942/beginning 1943

C99121


C99126


D38018

[Homer]

Thats exactly right 5th. It was busy times and many rifles can be found with 41 dated actions and 43 dated butts. It seems it didn't matter what order actions were assembled and that's why there doesn't seem to be any correlation between serial numbers and PAA numbers.
The change in proofs may have come about with the changes to MkIII*. The highest serial number for a MkIII I've seen is B79000 and the lowest MkIII* B85000 so the change may have been between that time.
Note also the difference between barrel and action proofs, similar to the 1929 rifle posted previously and like so many other lithgows. I identified this years ago on rifles that I was certain had the original barrels and suspected it was because barrels were initially proofed separate from the action. Not sure if that's right or how I came to that conclusion, but there is no doubt about differences between the proofs.

[muffett.2008]

Gotta say Andrew and Stuart, some of your ideas confuse me.
According to Skennerton the D prefix was later 1941 to 42, basic maths tells us there was an overrun of 45,921 rifles in this.
One of my '41 D's is a recapture, converted to .22 in '47, these would have been issued to troops in Malaya in the last few months of 1941(most of the recaptures were 1940 and '41 actions, subsequenty converted to .410. .22, Hornet or sold off to Sportco.)
So it looks pretty obvious to me that this proof mark changed at the end of 1940 or in the first few months of 1941, the lowest number of my two being D4703.
As to your comment about barrels being proofed before fitting, this was the go on the Martini's and was implemented again between 1913/14 and into 1915, this was due to steel quality and the high discard rate of barrels in the early years.(more on this one day when I get to it, but the barrels and actions were marked to identify the steel suppliers, this marking kept up until the 1930's.) but there was no proof mark added until assembly and proofing.

[Homer]

Kev look at your own survey. Blind freddy can see all the 43 dated barrels attached to D prefixed 1942 actions. That's because they were assembled in 1943. No doubt many of those have 43 dated butts and slaz43 forends also.