1968 MP5 with no serial number

[tankhunter]

I would imagine that even a tool room example would have a serial number, surely?....

For accountability purposes & tracking it's whereabouts in the factory?

After all, if it was a complete. It was after all, A Lethal Weapon!......

I feel it MIGHT have been produced like this. For 'special purposes' usage. By Undercover units that we are not
Privy, to such information?..........Just my Thoughts on this.

[mrclark303]

Morning all, it's certainly a ***** fish, you may well be right Mike, some sort of covert use is certainly the white elephant in the room.

Obviously "if" something along these lines did occur, then the necessary info will remain in the shadows and quite rightly so too.

A few points are certainly odd, it's 1968 manufacture date, but proof date of 1988 and the lack of serial number would certainly (you might say strongly) suggest Govenmental use of some sort.

Stacked against covert use ... Would such a piece be released from service?? I would have thought that was highly unlikely and when these things aren't required any further, surely they would be destroyed??

Regarding all the parts Geoff, yep, everything and quite a bit more came with it.

Someone swapped out the original TMH with the Turkish example, probably due to the slight damage on its leading edges, these have now been repaired and the original TMH has been re-fitted.

The deac cert listed the manufacturer date as the serial number, I am however very surprised the Birmingham Proof House proofed an SMG without a serial number though!

[bigduke6]

John, Mike, PM on the way and I doubt any Military use due to condition.

[mrclark303]

Some more pics guys.

My MP5 has been very carefully and sympathetically deactivated.

The black painted example is the other early MP5 that's come to light in the States, again without a serial number.

This has vexed the owner of this piece for years also... Note the straight magazines Geoff...

[browningautorifle]

Looks very good, I like the collapsible stock with the small front end myself...doesn't matter though. Looks good.

[Brit plumber]

A pre 1980s MP5 should have a straight mag as far as I know. Have a look at photos of the Iran Embasy photos and see what they had.

As daft as it sounds, are you convinced the 3/68 is a date and not a serial number? Im assuming other serial numbered guns have this same date format?

[Peter Laidler]

That's a good valid point BP. But would H&K have SAID that when shown the photos? Maybe confidentiality prevents them from further comment re numbers. On the military int side of things, our great long serving Int Officer 'aide/colleague/friend' told us many times that in the real world in which he, er........ inhabited, the no serial number thing was just for the TV. for many obvious reasons As for grinding them out, that was just for TV crime shows because......... anyway........

[Brit plumber]

I've been looking at photos and doing some reading in various publications and the date is correct, it is just that.

The straight mag is the early mag and by the time of the embasy siege, the SAS were using the curved mag.

I've also read that Enfield guns were marked En where Hk placed their logo so this is a Hk gun for sure. I'm not sure what constitutes the master controlled component in Germany but if it is isn't the body, perhaps this is a spare part like the L85 and hence no number.

[mrclark303]

I've been looking at photos and doing some reading in various publications and the date is correct, it is just that.

The straight mag is the early mag and by the time of the embasy siege, the SAS were using the curved mag.

I've also read that Enfield guns were marked En where Hk placed their logo so this is a Hk gun for sure. I'm not sure what constitutes the master controlled component in Germanyicon but if it is isn't the body, perhaps this is a spare part like the L85 and hence no number.

Evening Chris,

I can confirm that the Receiver is the master component on the MP5. Unlike the L85, the TMH is little more than a plastic pistol grip containing the selective fire mech, it can be stripped and reassembled in a new TMH and all back together in a couple of minutes flat.
This is just one of those real oddities, by the rules of common sense it shouldn't exist, as I mentioned in an earlier post, I was surprised the Proof House were prepared to Proof an SMG without a serial number, I would love to see the original record for it!

If I had been the Proof Master that day I wouldn't have proofed it without a number being assigned and clearly stamped/electro pencilled, simply no accountability without it.

I think the curved magazines became the norm from the early 1970's....

[skiprat]

Why in 1988 would a "Government" weapon be proofed by a civilian company ... We still had a proof facility at Enfield ( also later one at Nottingham)

What a factory employee says is company policy..... And what actually happens...2 totally different things

.. It could be a ( very good) Bitsa...Lunch box special, made by a competent gunsmith with contacts with many of the different factory's and put through civi proof prior to been serial numbered and put through the books.

Is there a serial number on the deact. cert. ( Twice through proof with no serial number)

Just thinking out loud.......