PPCo scope? Or something else

[Promo]

Hi Guys,

picked up this scope at a gun show, it looked British to me and the price tag was right, so I took the chance and brought it home.

The design reminds me of the British PPCo scope, also it has the "British type" reticle - but absolutely no markings anywhere.

Is there someone here who can tell me more on this scope, except that it has civilean mounts on it?

Thanks in advance!

Information

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[Peter Laidler]

Certainly LOOKS like it. Maybe a commercial one made for the civvy market like lots of other things were. Others with their finger on the pulse will come in quickly..........

[Roger Payne]

The PPCo was a plagiarised & slightly modified version of the Fuess Helios 3. Screw threads were anglicised & the lateral adjustment capstans were added. I have one original Helios 3 marked scope with a British provenance, & I have a couple of transitional Fuess/PPCo scopes, & have seen a number of others over the years. They are generally unmarked, & some bear the capstans & some do not. I have one example that bears the capstans that is fitted with Purdey rings, & know of one fitted with Holland & Holland mounts. I must say however, that all of the transitional scopes I have seen up to now have had the 'short cone' ocular housing, not the 'long cone' variety as does yours.

Are there any signs of military usage such as a broad arrow, a rifle serial, or range drum graduations of 1 to 6 or 1 to 5??

Assuming they accept it there will soon be a reasonably lengthy journal article available on British & Dominion Sniping Equipment of WW1 to the UK shooter/collector fraternity. I'm reluctant to say much more at this stage, but I am hoping to secure the rights for Badger to file the article on milsurps as well. It will then be available to all, such that it is!

ATB.

[Promo]

No markings which I can see. Probably hidden below the scope rings, but didn't want ot desolder them before I know what I have. But thanks for your information Roger. If I understood you correctly you suspect it to be one of the early copies which were indeed British made?

[Simon]

Best way to tell the difference is to use a micrometer and take some dimensional measurements. If it is a Feuss it will be a Metric, 25mm tube etc, if it is a PP Co copy it will be 1" or 25.4mm etc

[Promo]

Good idea, thanks Simon! Will check today and let you know!

[Peter Laidler]

That's a good idea Simon, thread 5!

[Promo]

So to finally bring some news with the scope, I managed to pull out my micrometer and measured the tube in several areas. Bingo, everywhere exactly 25mm, so it must be German made!

And turned it around a bit more, measured turning the tube to avoid that I might measure only in dented areas ... a bit more light and HUH? Are those markings? Took out the magnifying glass ... yes, this makes the confusion perfect! The scope tube is hardly readable, but visibly marked "Periscopic Prism" over "Company Ltd" over "London" marked - and measures exactly 25mm is this area aswell!

So, did PPCo probably started producing scopes using German made tubes? Or how can I explain this?

[Roger Payne]

I don't suppose you want to sell it do you, I'll give you a profit?!? That's highly significant find. There is no doubt that PPCo copied & modified the original Fuess design, tweaking & anglicising it a bit, but I'm not aware of any documentation that clarifies at just what point manufacture was taken over in the UK. I have an original Fuess marked scope with British provenance, so we certainly started by using the 'native' German product. I have several transitionals so I'd better go & have another long close look at them!

[Promo]

Since I told you what I paid for it, your offer could be incredibly low and I would still make a profit - was that the suggestion? Just kidding, wanted to express that I wasn't too wrong spending the money on the scope then.

Check your transitional scopes, probably they are also all of a 25mm tube - who knows. AFAIK marked Fuess the scopes on the ocular housing. So probably PPCo removed the original Fuess ocular housing and the focal adjustment (= the parts marked by Fuess), re-engraved the German tube with their markings, and installed a new ocular housing? Just a guess. I might need to get tools to measure the threads and see if they are British or European standard.