Powder Ignition Failure

[Parashooter]

"Extruded" doesn't apply by degree. It's either extruded or it's not. The powder you show most certainly is.

[bob q]

You didn't read what he wrote did you?

You did not understand what I wrote . A list of things that cause the problem . #5 was the powder used [ an added note that I-3031 is a powder that has that problem the worst of the six or so powders that have that problem ] .

[browningautorifle]

So, you're not going to try a magnum primer...lightish is still not a full load? Reduced loads in some cartridges will produce this very thing. Two ways to do it. Full house load and see or a magnum primer and see. Otherwise you've wasted time here... You never did tell us what bullet weight. The scales I set above show minimum 44 gr start. So you're under this set of loads by quite a bit...for the smallest bullet they show using this powder.

[bob q]

the .323 is the correct size for the Lebel 1886

Of the 26 rifles I have chambered in 8x50 Lebel , none have a .323 groove barrel . They all have .327 -.329 groove barrels . So a .323 bullet is too Small . Once you have reloaded 100,000's of round for 1000' of old military rifles you will see a lot of things . 303's rarely have a bunch of the problems I listed . When the op loaded for his 8 Lebel , he had most of them .

[browningautorifle]

Ok, so lets back up here...are you loading for .303, 8mm Lebel or 7.62x54? All are mentioned and you do circles but don't really say. What exact bullet weight are you using? All these things matter. So far we're all guessing because you won't be specific... except you say you've undercharged.

[bombdoc]

So, you're not going to try a magnum primer...lightish is still not a full load? Reduced loads in some cartridges will produce this very thing. Two ways to do it. Full house load and see or a magnum primer and see. Otherwise you've wasted time here... You never did tell us what bullet weight. The scales I set above show minimum 44 gr start. So you're under this set of loads by quite a bit...for the smallest bullet they show using this powder.

The bullets I am using are 196gn FMJBTs and when they go, they are accurate and shoot to the sights, but I agree that I could safely come up a couple of grains and see what happens. That said, I'm not sure adding a couple of grains to the charge will affect the chances of ignition, but you never know!

I'm not saying I will not use magnum primers, but the lack of neck tension seems a more obvious cause which I will pursue if the increased load does not do the trick!

I came on here to see if anyone else had seen similar symptoms! I am aware of the issues of high pressures/detonations with low charges of slow powder, but I had not heard of the particular symptoms I have reported. Can I just confirm that you have seen these symptoms before..?

Thank you for your advice and opinion, and no, I don't think I have wasted my time; I'm sorry if you think I have wasted yours!

[browningautorifle]

I HAVE had this happen before. About thirty years back. That's when I found up three things could be at fault, undercharge, cool primers and primer up condition. The last can be solved by tipping the muzzle up before firing and tap the butt to seat the powder back on the primer. If the flash isn't submerged in the powder you can get a hang fire or this cooked powder you have. The cool primer we've discussed and a light charge can also have the exact same effect. Or, the extra space in the case can blow it up...

[bombdoc]

Ok, so lets back up here...are you loading for .303, 8mm Lebel or 7.62x54? All are mentioned and you do circles but don't really say. What exact bullet weight are you using? All these things matter. So far we're all guessing because you won't be specific... except you say you've undercharged.

To clarify..

I have observed the phenomenon in three rifles:

two were in 7.62x54 Mosin Nagant rifles (not mine) using .311 174gn FMJ bullets and N140 - I don't know the specific loads, but assume 45 - 47 gn range...

The third was my own 8 x 50 Lebel - I have given the details of the loads, however they were .323 bullets as that is the only 8mm bullets I can obtain.. They fly fine, no yawing or tumbling and group reasonably well at 300 yds. The French factory loads I pulled were .323 as well!

My comments about .303 were simply to point out that it is a roughly similar load using the same components that has never shown these symptoms, hence my curiosity..!

Working on the "first is unusual, second is coincidence, third is enemy action" theory I decided to ask around....!

[browningautorifle]

So...the Lebel, do you actually have loading spec for this one?

[CINDERS]

Never assume on reloading a sure recipe for disaster as for light charges and mag primers I nearly blew myself up trying to get reduced load and lower pressure for velocity (Win - 760 Ball Powder) it did not work I had 3 flash overs that created so much pressure the primers fell out of the case stuff that for a lark never again I will not go below a 93% charge density now regardless. That was in my 6.5/284 to try and squeeze a few more rounds from the barrel as they toast barrels pretty quick @1200rnds or less when loaded to the 2950fps with 140gn Bergers. I find it strange that with 2 types of dies you get the same result, you could try gas check leads but then you probably cannot drive them hard enough, try defcon or similar consumable safe packing to keep the powder against the primer or as you suggest go to a Redding "S" type die.