1942 Longbranch question

[yoopercollector]

I have a question about a 1942 Longbranch I picked up today. It has a mix of parts but the numbers look like they match. Did rifles get parts changed without getting marked with FTR? The only LB marked parts I can see besides the receiver are the front sight base, protector, bolt head and trigger guard. No LB on the wood or the bands. Rear sight marked B, front sight F, cocking piece N67MKII, and don't see any mark on the bolt body. I haven't stripped it down yet. Thanks in advance.

Information

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[Peter Laidler]

Armourers like me the world over just took the next part off the shelf, carefully fitted it, tested it and sent it on its way. We didn't give a fig whether the part was made in Canada, the USA or Cardiff. Others who live in another orbitory planet who are more experienced in the ways of the real world that Armourers live think we did search for all X or Y or Z made parts but I can assure you we didn't

[yoopercollector]

There is no FTR markings or any other marks stamped or written on the rifle. The internal parts are LB, the safety is not, has what looks like an arrow mark. Is it OK not to have any markings added?

[Brian Dick]

It probably got worked on to fix a specific problem and didn't necessarily see a full blown FTR.

[Seaspriter]

It probably got worked on to fix a specific problem and didn't necessarily see a full blown FTR.

Armourers like me the world over just took the next part off the shelf, carefully fitted it, tested it and sent it on its way. We didn't give a fig whether the part was made in Canada, the USA or Cardiff. Others who live in another orbitory planet who are more experienced in the ways of the real world that Armourers live think we did search for all X or Y or Z made parts but I can assure you we didn't

Peter and Brian probably nailed it and will probably amplify or qualify what I'm venturing here. The FTR process was a full Factory Thorough Repair to bring the rifle up to full service standards. But there were field armourers behind the battle lines that would do a field repair* -- a quick fix, so to speak , often right on the spot, like a tune-up -- then send the soldier back to the lines. If it was a race car, we'd call it the "pit crew," with tool kits. Most battlefield rifles are made for field stripping, cleaning, and easy parts replacement.
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* Question: Does FR stamped on a stock mean "Field Repair?" One of my Savage Enfields has this stamp and it was obviously repaired with a replacement butt stock.

[yoopercollector]

Thanks for the help. The only thing that worried me was the bolt, the number matches but I don't see a LB stamp. The only marks I see are a punch mark on the front of the handle and what looks like a small arrow pointing at a 3 under the handle. Didn't know if a bolt would be fit to the rifle without FTR marks. There is no LB on the mag but the serial number matches rifle. The stock is strange also, it has no LB or Canadian acceptance marks but has the serial number and what looks like the same serial number above it but you can tell it is older. There are F's stamped in the barrel channels on all three front stock parts. My main concern though was the bolt but it sounds OK to shoot. Thanks again.

[Seaspriter]

If the serial numbers all match, and the third digit in the sequence is L, then it is a Long Branch (such as 41L1234)
Thread Long Branch - Linking Serial Numbers to Month of Production will tell you the month of production
If the stock is either birch or maple, then it is probably an original stock. Some early models were in walnut, but the Canadian stock of walnut ran out early in production, and walnut was reserved strictly for snipers.

[yoopercollector]

It's a 1942 serial number 4L I think 7832. I guess April 42.

[Peter Laidler]

Yooper....... please stop getting bogged down in makers marks. They have absolutely no bearing on the serviceability or reliability of your rifle and certainly had no bearing on how the REAL world of REAL Armourers worked, believe me. If you want a pro eye to give your rifle the all clear get a specialist Armourer to give it the once over.

Bolts could be replaced by Armourers at Field Workshop level and guess what......... We would do it day in and out. But it'd be fitted properly, all gauged up and all of the inter-retaled items set to their tolerances. That done, it'd be numbered and range tested. End of story.

Let me elaborate a bit, bang up to date to explain exactly what I mean. I am, at this very moment, stripping and rebuilding a well and truly, totally worn out, well used and abused L1A1 telescopic sight. No doubt it is in the same dire state as its equivalent L42 rifle. The OG lens has been carefully scoured with a scotchbrite pad. The following parts are missing...... Don't ask......, they're missing. The anti rotation screw in the OG lens housing, the focal point adjustin ring ahead of the inner ocular lens plus some other bits and screws. The ocular lens housing bears the number 26803 while the erector cell has yet another number, neither of which relate to this telescope indicating to me that in its life it has been cobbled together from parts in the workshop. Plus, one of the erector lenses is back to front causing a bit of 'fish-eye' but nothing to worry about unless you really need to hit the target - which most snipers appear to want to do. The lead screws are virtually devoid of thread and........... You get my drift........

Oh yes, I almost forgot........ The graticle and post is missing and guess what.....? It's been got-at internally too!

So I rebuild it and replace everything that cannot be reasonably repaired. I replace the 4x springs and the OG lens with new made modern replacements. The lead screws with old but new parts 'liberated' when they were available. Correct all of the internal faults and by this time tomorrow it'll be perfect. But it will contain modern repro parts, old parts, new screws and the old housings from other telescopes that have been scrapped or cannibalised ready for another 70 years service. But you can bet your bottom dollar that none of them will have come from Taylor Hobson!

The question is this. Would you or anyone else give a toss that it ain't original? After all, it ain't original so far as we know since it was converted to L1A1 spec at 27 Command Workshop in 1971.

The next question is a bit like your rifle. Are you really interested in the fact that the rifle you have is in perfect working and serviceable condition?

[Seaspriter]

YOOPER,

It's a 1942 serial number 4L I think 7832. I guess April 42.

You've got a very early Long Branch. Cherish it with pride. Now think as a historian first, not a collector. As you hold the rifle in your hands, use your imagination -- think of the soldier that held that rifle over seventy years ago and what he was going through. Your rifle probably made its way across the Atlantic, and did service in North Africa in 1943, then crossed into Sicily and then into Italy by 1944. By 1945 your rifle was probably in Germany. Imagine how much abuse that gun must have taken and how many times the soldier carrying that gun, which had served him well, went to the Field Armourer for a check-up and tune-up. Any little glitch in that gun could mean the difference between life and death -- so the Field Armourer was to rifles as the Field Medic was to humans.

This is why Capt. Laidler's remarks are so appropriate.

please stop getting bogged down in makers marks. They have absolutely no bearing on the serviceability or reliability of your rifle and certainly had no bearing on how the REAL world of REAL Armourers worked, believe me. If you want a pro eye to give your rifle the all clear get a specialist Armourer to give it the once over.

All those changes are signs of character, of the gun doing its duty every day, giving service for the purpose it was intended -- enabling a courageous soldier to help win the war.

Recently I purchased the "skeleton" remains of a 1944 Long Branch -- cut down sporterized barrel, stripped receiver, and a messed up walnut butt stock. Some vulture had plucked nearly every piece of the meat off this poor gal. It was cheap -- $40 on GB. I was going to use it for parts. Lo and behold, upon delivery, I found it was originally a sniper - very rare. The antiquarian in me would not allow further desecration of this once-glorious artifact. I sent it to our resident Long Branch ace Armourer/gunsmith, Brian Dick, who has it now. When he returns it, only the receiver will be original. It will have a MkII barrel, and an assortment of parts, some from LB, but many others from whatever he has in his parts bin, as Capt. Laidler describes. I will have a truly battle worn sniper, worn from war, worn from post-war sport shooters, worn from strippers and abusers, and rebuilt by a professional. Will this sniper be an "authentic" gun? Sure, authentic from the standpoint of having the equivalent of an FTR rebuild. Will it ever be as valuable as a pristine sniper. No. Will I value it more than its pristine cousin -- yes! Because Brian and I saved a glorious gun from the rubbish heap -- we did not buy the value, we created the value by putting something into the gun. Value is all in the eye of the beholder.