WW1 Periscopic Prism Ltd Scope Questions/New Member

[hunter1982]

Greetings Forum,

Such a wealth of knowledge here that I could not afford to remain anonymous! I'm born and raised in Virginia Beach and have an older parent who always had a keen interest in militaria particularly WW2. We also enjoy frequenting local auctions and come across items of interest to the forum.

Recently, I purchased what I believe (from viewing previous forum posts here) to be a Periscopic Prism Ltd (London) WW1 sniper scope. It also appeared to vintage leather carrying case but it does not fit (by a good half inch even when I use the last buckle hole) so I don't believe its the original carrying case (its not marked either) but it may be a vintage case for another scope possibly? I'll post pictures of both.

Back to the scope, it has the general patent number of 3027/1915 to the right of the company markings as well as the numbers A 8687 to the left. I'm assuming the A 8687 refers to the specific SMLE models they fit on? or maybe was just a PPCo serial number from which a date of manufacture could be determined?

My understanding is that PPCo was one of the more prolifically used GB made scopes during the Great War along with Aldis, Evans, Gibbs, No32 etc.. and that not as many survived for several reasons?

Any and all help on the history of this model scope would be awesome. I don't hold out much hope on the case but who knows, someone may recognize it as well.

Thanks very much for everyone's' contributions to this site, seems like a good group of folks who are passionate about the history. Glad to be a new member.

Best regards,
Hunter

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Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[browningautorifle]

Welcome to the site...Yes, apparently it's for an SMLE. We'll have more on it shortly I'm sure... Milsurps Knowledge Library - WW1 Periscopic Prism Co Ltd London Telescopic Sight Strip Down (by Valleysniper))

[Promo]

AFAIK the "A 8687" is the serial of the rifle it was originally issued with.

Is your scope case numbered on front? Mine appears to be identical to yours, but bears the rifle number also on front.

[Roger Payne]

Yes, all the information you have garnered so far is correct. The A8687 is indeed the serial number of the rifle to which it was originally fitted. The case appears to be genuine, though if the leather has been dry for some time it may have contracted a little.

The Periscopic Prism Company had premises in Kentish Town in London during WW1 & produced scopes such as yours during 1915 & 1916. The patent referred to on the mount was granted to a Mr A B Rolfe-Martin in February 1915. Original rifles can be either Mk3 or Mk3* types & are usually of Enfield manufacture. As you mention, nearly 5000 of these equipments were produced, making them the commonest variant used. The Aldis was the second commonest & the Winchester A5 the third.

These scopes should not be confused with the later Model 1918 scope which was fitted to P'14 rifles towards the end of the war. These scopes were also manufactured by the Periscopic Prism Company, & are marked as such. Additionally small numbers of Aldis scopes were also fitted to P'14 & SMLE rifles in over bore mounts late in the war & shortly after the armistice, & these may bear the legend 'fitted by the Periscopic Prism Company London', or similar.

Hope this helps.

ATB.

[hunter1982]

Thank you to Browning, George and Roger for the responses thus far.

Roger, a follow up concerning the case. It seems that many of the cases were also marked in some fashion either by the manufacturer or with a number possibly corresponding to the serial number of the scope. Mine has neither. I looked to make sure if it had a mark originally and had worn down but there is nothing. I take this to mean I may have a civilian made piece and/or a manufactured one without a mark? Is there hope that this could still be specific to a PPCo or other scope manufacturer?

Furthermore, I am interested in a valuation on both pieces. Just ballparking it as I realize condition is everything along with provenance if available. If its easier to PM on any/all the above, please feel free.

Any help is most appreciated.

Thanks very much.

-Hunter

[Roger Payne]

I have never seen a PPCo case that bore a maker's mark, though own one that is marked up to the 2nd Bn Coldstream Guards - but this is not typical & was obviously done at a local level. Most bear the rifle serial (quite often more than one serial, with the original barred through), & a broad arrow stamp is common. It is possible yours slipped through the net, or it could be an old replacement, I suppose. If you look inside the case they are usually lined with a felt like material. They are also, unlike most other scope cases, almost perfectly circular in section (rather than oval).

[Surpmil]

I would ask the seller what if anything they knew of its history. It obviously had an active life and one can't help wondering if it travelled to the USA with its former "owner". There were two US divisions in WWI equipped with Lee Enfields and other British equipment.