Help Understanding BSA No.4 MK I* (T), Please

[martin08]

It's not every day when I can visit my local shop and handle a milsurp, let alone a WWII era Sniper.

But with a Lee Enfield, I know only enough to be a danger to myself. So, I'm going to post the very rushed and limited photos, then ask what could make this specimen into a $4,650 gun?

The only numbers which match on the entire rifle are on the buttsocket and bolt. I do believe I can make out an S51 on the buttstock. Scope and mount look original to me.

If anyone can help me to understand more, it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Information

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[Roger Payne]

It's a real BSA 1943 4T with a real bracket & scope, it's just that the scope bracket (& therefore probably the scope), is off a N prefix 1944 rifle. The serial on the butt socket is interesting as it is only a three digit number so may indicate that the rifle originally bore a Mk2/1 scope. That again is interesting as most of the UIC 2/1 scopes I know of were fitted to 44 & 45 rifles. It might be worth taking off the butt to check the rifle serial on the tenon at the front. The pads look ok & the bracket is an original Dalgleish Foundry product (code N92). I suspect the serial number has been over stamped on both the butt socket & the bolt body. The four digit number may well be the original serial, but it should be prefixed by two letters, the first of which should be a letter 'A', eg. AB, AD, AQ, AT etc.

Oh, & it is a No4 Mk1 rifle, not a Mk1*, although the receiver side wall engraving is not very easy to read.

Hope this helps a little.

[rayg]

It might be worth taking off the butt to check the rifle serial on the tenon at the front. .

Also check the underside of the forearm near the front sight for a serial number, Ray

[Peter Laidler]

Mk2/1 telescope 563 is the highest numbered UIC I have recorded and follows previous highest 557 or so

[Lance]

565 is the highest I have in my records.

[jmoore]

565 is the highest I have in my records.

I THOUGHT that scope looked familiar! Had completely forgotten the photo though.

[Peter Laidler]

Yep, thanks to Lance, got 565 now too! OR......, is that 363 on the butt?

[martin08]

So, closer examination of the blurry buttsocket picture, a scrubbed letter 'A-prefix' is still visible. Also with the renumbered bolt, would one suspect that that the number on the front of the buttstock tenon be matched? Seems doubtful, but again my Enfield Sniper experience is limited.

Also, I forgot to include the front wood number picture, but it is 3912 and does not jive with any other numbers.

Obviously, the scope and bracket are not matched to the rifle, but are original (vs repro). So, would one call this a re-sniper? Or, could this have been configured as such during an arsenal rebuild?

And then the BIG question, what is it worth? It is on consignment, and the owner has placed a rather significant price on it, $4650. Thanks.

---------- Post added at 07:13 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:05 AM ----------

Yep, thanks to Lance, got 565 now too! OR......, is that 363 on the butt?

As I can expand the original picture in my photo folder, it is very clear that it is a '563'.

[Peter Laidler]

Answers, in order asked:
The number on the top ledge of the butt tenon ORIGINALLY matched that of the rifle as it was so numbered at H&H just so that the same butt would go back onto the same rifle to save future hand fitting.
Not a re-sniper, just a mix-and-match like several thousand more out there. Not even a chance of it being mix-and-matched like that at a workshop rebuild!!!!!!! We don't do mix and match unless it's an official mix and match. And then we bar out and re-configure exactly. It's been done later, somewhere in its civilian lifetime.
What's it worth? Is it complete? And its worth to whom? You? it's the value you put on it. To him? he's told you. To the rest of the world, the price they want to pay is the auction price on the day

[martin08]

Thank you Peter. Understood. Not a re-sniper, as it had not been previously de-snipered. Just a civilian assembly of parts.

So, no. It is not worth the asking price to me. And yes, the owner has placed a value on the piece. Where I can find previous comparable sale references, there aren't enough records around for me to make an educated assessment. I see one sale from Gunbroker in the past 90 days, at $2,325.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=503543572

Several old Gunauction listings can be dug up, but again, none even approaching the asking price for this local gun. So, I will be passing.



But for fear of asking the same question on value, I'll try from a different angle. What have others recently paid for similar configuration and condition?