Fitting fore end problem

[danbailey]

Hello all..first post here-been doing alot of reading, especially on the subject of fitting the fore end to my No. 4 Mark II I just recently purchased.
After removing the years of cosmoline, after oiling wood and metal, when assembling the rifle, I had a huge amount of play in the foreend-at the axis of the king pin.
Searching the forum, I discovered Mr. Laidlers article on fitting a fore end correctly...specifically, this paragraph pertaining to my problem:

" NO it shouldn’t! If it was meant to, it’d
be made of spring steel! Now for a little tip. The COLLAR. You
MUST have a collar and spring washer. This is what WE used to do.
Put the front trigger guard screw into the trigger guard and body
WITHOUT the washer or collar. Reverse it (that’s anti-clockwise …..)
until you hear it click over the start thread and tighten it BUT COUNT
THE TURNS UNTIL IT TIGHTENS AND LOCKS. Say, that it’s 7 ¼
turns to lock. Now do this with the collar fitted if it’s now, say 8 ½
turns, shorten the collar, a smidgin at a time, until the screw tightens up
at exactly 7 ¼ turns. That way, you KNOW that the screw is tight, the
fore-end is tight between the trigger guard and the screw and you are
not crushing the living daylights out of the fore-end. And if it feels a
little loose in a years time, then you can safely turn a few thou off the
collar."

Here is my problem...without the collar and lock washer-my king screw tightens up at 7 1/2 turns-no slop in axis movement.......with the collar and lock washer...it tightens up at 5 3/4 turns-lots of slop in axis movement....

It would seem to me-that the collar is too high, yet, according to Mr. Laidlers article...the need to reduce the length of the collar is dependent on the number of turns being HIGHER with the collar than without?
Is this a typo in the article-or am I not seeing/ understanding something?

Any help/info would be much appreciated

PS: I didnt notice any slop previous to purchasing/ cleaning-but there was a huge amount of old cosmo packed in there.

Information

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[Flying10uk]

Could you, please, clarify exactly which part of the rifle you mean by the "King Pin"? Do you men the screw just in front of the magazine which has the spacing collar fitted to it?

[danbailey]

Yes, that is the one...front trigger guard screw-main screw

[ArtioZen]

Hi Dan - there is a known typo in that text that has been recovered in other threads. A long bushing (longer than the foreend and trigger guard assembly is thick) will give less turns to tighten - shorten the bushing until the number of turns matches the test with just the bare foreend and using "snug" hand torque - no wooden creaking sounds - then test bearing pressure at the muzzle end - proof of pudding is a test shoot grouping with all else being good on the rifle (too much to get into). I used to know the TPI of the thread to convert turns to thread lenght, but its now forgotten and is also buried in previous threads.

[Brian Dick]

Please pick up a copy of Ian Skennerton's Small Arms ID Series booklet on the No.4, (S.A.I.S. #2). You'll find the MoD illustrated parts catalog inside with the proper nomenclature for the parts and assemblies. That way we'll all know what you're talking about. They are a bargain at $10 plus postage. Money well spent.

[danbailey]

Thanks guys....I wanted to follow the instructions Mr Laidlers posted-but was confounded when I got to counting my turns and it didnt match up! As soon as I figure posting pics out from the FAQ-I'll show my Enfield and another question I have I havnt found yet previously answered on the forum.

[Flying10uk]

Another point to watch is that the threads on the screw and the threads in the receiver that screw fits into are not damaged or fouled with muck etc. Also its always possible that the screw could be an incorrect/non original replacement and/or too long. You sometimes find that some-one has fitted an incorrect replacement screw on an old weapon at some point in the past. If I was having this problem I would probably try screwing the screw in, with the fore-end woodwork removed, and checking that the screw actually screws in fully.

[danbailey]

Thanks, I did do that just to be sure I didn't mix any screws up when I disassembled..screw threaded in fine....I ended filing the collar down from .5145 to .500/.4950 and it tightened up nicely