irregular trigger pull off on a n°4 MkI

[ArtioZen]

I would be interested to pursue the causes of the tigger guard protruding at the front if it was my rifle - the trigger guard front screw has to overcome this 'rising" to seat, but the effort of pulling the trigger guard "home" at the front is acting like a high bearing surface at the draws and is losing 2PO and you say you have a high front bearing pressure. Are all of these tests with the rear trigger guard screw in place? (not metioned or photographed - just checking!) Maybe dychem test the receiver and knox contact into the fore-end and the trigger guard into the trigger guard pocket to ensure all is square and true - something seems amiss at the draws end that is also giving a high front bearing load (not time to remove material there yet I think) and loss of 2PO..
Merry Christmas to anyone sober enough to still read!

[Son]

Do I read this right? The collar is holding the trigger guard off the foreend by a fraction of a turn?

The collar is 0.5" long, when I tighten the trigger guard to the forend without the collar, I need 5.8 turns, 5.7 with the collar set in place.

The collar should be a bare spot below the foreend to allow the front trigger guard screw to "nip" the trigger guard down onto the foreend.... There is an article on trimming the collar to length, if it protrudes it isn't fitting right.

[Ridolpho]

For what it's worth, when trimming collars I don't try to count precise turns of the screw. With the collar removed I count the complete turns and mark with felt pen one end of the screw slot and the adjoining triggerguard when the forend is clamped finger tight. Then, if it were too long, I trim the collar until the felt pen alignment marks go maybe 5-10 degrees beyond where they were without the collar.

Ridolpho

[Brian Dick]

If the trigger guard is sticking up like that at the front, (whether the rear trigger guard screw is attached or not), it isn't straight. It should lay nice and flat. You shouldn't have to push it down at the rear to insert the rear guard screw. I'm guessing but I'd say it's bent from the magazine opening backwards. Pull it out and place it on a flat surface to see. You need to tweak it back until it lies straight and try it again. Use a smooth jaw vice and clamp it tight against the loop for the trigger. Then bend carefully back and check on a flat surface. Trim you collar down a hair too as Son says. Then check the bearing at the front and if it's too heavy adjust that too as Peter says.

[Lou Cypher]

you say you have a high front bearing pressure. Are all of these tests with the rear trigger guard screw in place?

Yes I have 7.1 lbs according to the method demonstrate in" the 2012 complete book on Lee Enfield accurizing" and all the test where with the rear guard screw in place.
This picture was taken with a shim under the reinforce receiver
Attachment 68137

The collar should be a bare spot below the foreend to allow the front trigger guard screw to "nip" the trigger guard down onto the foreend....

For what it's worth, when trimming collars I don't try to count precise turns of the screw.

I will try again with your method.

If the trigger guard is sticking up like that at the front, (whether the rear trigger guard screw is attached or not), it isn't straight. It should lay nice and flat.

The trigger guard is flat and when the rear screw is not attached, it lays flat, when the rear screw is attached the front trigger guard rises.

well, better than a long speech,
I will be prepare a photo report, tell me what kind of information would help to get a good diagnosis.

Happy Chrismas

Lou

[Peter Laidler]

Fore-end fitting is a VERY practical thing - just like setting up bolts. Just consider that it took apprentices months during their second year bench work practical to understand the actual mechanics of it all. And here we are trying to not only trouble shoot but do it over the forum.

I say get an old knackered or worn out fore-end and trigger guard to practice fitting/play with. When you have mastered that, fit it for real. THEN set about the pull-off

We have a similar thread running on the No32/42 telescope thread. How do you get it apart when it's all stuck together........ But get it apart without damaging something!

[Lou Cypher]

Fore-end fitting is a VERY practical thing - just like setting up bolts. Just consider that it took apprentices months during their second year bench work practical to understand the actual mechanics of it all. And here we are trying to not only trouble shoot but do it over the forum.

I agree, otherwise we would be all gunsmith, which I am far away to be. What I understand now, is that my problem is standing in the forend fitting and not only in the trigger system.

I say get an old knackered or worn out fore-end and trigger guard to practice fitting/play with

Humm! that will be the hardest to get, but I understand the philosophy, practising again and again.

After a shot of some cartridges from 1930 cordite loaded, at 50 yards, extrapolation give me a potential grouping at 200 yards of 5"x7", I guess that the general quality of this rifle is not so bad. So, If I can't succeed in in fitting the forend correctly, I will keep it like it is.
But I will try any non destructive action to get a better result.


Lou

[Peter Laidler]

Try as I might Lou, I cannot simplify or better explain the theory of the fitting of a fore-end any better than I explained a couple of years ago. Practice makes perfect. The perfect practice opf fore-end fitting came to me all of a sudden - after 5 years of practice!

[Lou Cypher]

So, I worked on my n°4 the 25th
I checked and rechecked the parts, trigger guard, collar, front screw, trigger, sear, forend, sear lugs, contact points see attachments. I read and read again the "fitting a forend article", applied your advises.
I disassembled re assembled many times, one thing was changing, the position of the trigger guard when I reassembled was not similar every time : I obtained this
Attachment 68247 or
Attachment 68248
At the last reassembling I knock the forend in place, slightly. Because one sentence got my attention

The trigger guard should not spring at the rear or front….., NO it shouldn’t!

And I got this result
Attachment 68249.
I tightened the screw that matched the turns with or without the collar. I put the bolt in place and...I got my 2PO.
I guess that the problem came from the fact that when I reassembled the forend I didn't set it correctly, because it's really tight fitted and I must knock it in place.
This morning, at the range, I was happy, the rifle is shooting straight, I still have the 2PO, and she has a great potential, 5 rounds in 1.35"*1" at 50 yards (the 200 yards range is closed for the time being).
Problem is solved.