New Stock For Custom M1917 Target Rifle

[Patrick Chadwick]

I just checked in Stratton. P14 and M1917 bolt bodies are NOT interchangeable. The locking lugs are different. If Bubba ground down the lugs on an M1917 bolt to make it fit into a P14 receiver, then the hardened surfaces have been ruined.

[KanadianKommando]

Just got back from the gunsmith. I was lucky in that he had an original Remington M1917, as well as some aftermarket triggers and such for the M1917 Enfield. After doing a full takedown, he found out what he thought was causing the problem. The trigger group on this rifle, coupled with the speedlock kit, was causing the safety issue. Apparently, the trigger was designed for an original cocking piece, and would fail to function safely with a speedlock kit. After putting in an original M1917 bolt and timney trigger, the rifle functioned fine. The bolt body in my rifle wasn't altered as far as he could see, and worked fine with his striker/spring/cocking piece. I hope a timney trigger and original cocking piece/ firing pin/ spring should fix the problems I've been having, as I don't want this rifle to turn into a "black hole" for my money. I got the rifle for almost nothing though, as the previous owner sold it to me saying that it was "too heavy to be a hunting rifle". The action is pillar bedded and the barrel is free-floated, so if I can just get the thing to cycle and shoot fine then I think it has the potential to be a fun tack driver, although I'm not going to get my hopes up just yet. The proof will be in the paper down range...

[Patrick Chadwick]

After putting in an original M1917 bolt and timney trigger, the rifle functioned fine.

Well that's a relief. But I'm still worried about the difference between P14 and M1917 lugs.

[Seaspriter]

Basically, a rifle which shows this fault
a) is dangerous
b) has been Bubba-ed.

In this particular case, it appears that the rifle was cobbled together unprofessionally, the result being a hazardous "mixmaster".

As we have had instances of all sorts of fudges on these forums, including at least one example of an unsafe-to-fire DP rifle being "creatively" restored to action, I very seriously recommend that you treat it as suspect, dismantle it completely, and inspect all parts thoroughly. If you read through the linked texts above, you will understand why.

You have what is considered a "Frankenstein" weapon.

Don't try to "Fix Frankenstein."

Strongly suggest you consider tearing out ALL the Bubba'd changes to the action, and replace with the real deal as originally designed. Leave the 308 barrel, and see if you can put a "conversion filler" in the mag along the lines of those used in M1 Garrands that have been converted from .30-06 to .308.

[Patrick Chadwick]

Now I am utterly confused!

a) The evidence of the number is that it is a P14 receiver.
b) Stratton writes that the P14 and M1917 bolt bodies are not interchangeable, with different locking lugs.
c) The fact that an original M1917 bolt fits and functions properly suggests that it is a either an M1917 receiver, despite the number, OR Stratton is wrong, and the bolt bodies are effectively interchangeable, despite the difference in the locking lugs, OR a) and b) are both true, and Bubba "fixed" the receiver to accept the M1917 locking lugs.

Can someone who has BOTH an unaltered P14 AND an unaltered M1917 please check if the M1917 bolt will, in fact, fit into the P14 receiver and close properly? If it doesn't, then we seem to be left with the last option: a dangerous fix.

[Salt Flat]

Patrick, The OP's combination will work. The 1917 bolt will work in a P14 receiver IF the new barrel has the cone shaped breech of a 1917 barrel. (P14 has a flat breech face where the cartridge headspaces) The main difference in the bolts lies in the forward part of the lugs. Also the extractor.--- (see the bolt diagram in the Stratton book page 59.) However note that the labeling on the diagram is reversed! The receivers differ mostly in the magazine opening size. The locking lug shoulders are identical. I have checked this on several P14 and 1917 receivers that I have. I have seen many rifles converted in this way. Also P14 bolts in 1917 receivers when usiing belted magnum cartridges with large diameter cartridge heads. Salt Flat

[Patrick Chadwick]

Many thanks for that clarification! Now I can sleep better!

[Calif-Steve]

Even IF this rifle checks out OK, I would not be inclined to put any new money into the project. I think selling it on and buying a nice M1917 is the way to go. Good luck.

[Surpmil]

Many hundreds of P14s were converted to 7.62mm with the M17 bolt swap, all over the Commonwealth. No safety issues have surfaced to my limited knowledge. The action is about probably number three in overall strength for a military action, after the Ross MkIII and the Arisaka.

The woodwork is typical of what a lot of target shooters did, and better than a good many. In this country in decades gone by, they often spent their money on barrels and gunsmithing and did the woodwork and bedding themselves to save money.

Did you ask the previous owner how much he shot it and with what results? If you consider him credible and informed, his statement should count for something, if only because he is potentially incurring some liability in what he sells you and what he tells you.

My only concern, and it is more accuracy than safety, would be are the bolt lug bearing surfaces making even contact with the lugs in the receiver. That should be checked with layout blue, and if contact is not even and full, some lapping in would be advisable.

[ArtPahl]

I note in your pics that the safety is in the rear, engaged position. That may be the problem with hard bolt closure. The cocking piece may be catching safety as the bolt almost closes. If you still have the original bolt parts, push the safety all the way forward and see if the bolt then closes normally. I still think the safety on that rifle was intended to be ignored since it's a pure target rifle. As the previous owner discovered, "It's too heavy for a hunting rifle", it was not intended to be carried with a round in the chamber and the safety on.

Sorry if this sounds condescending, but you don't seem to have very much familiarity with "Enfield" rifles and this may be a big part of your problem.