303 snipers

[Sentryduty]

While I am not certain about the Second World War, I do know in modern times that depending on the Regiment, Canadian soldiers are notorious for ignoring inconvenient equipment regulations. During my time, it became common to hot-rod your own gear to make up for issue shortfalls and equipment shortcomings. I am sure this sort of thing will prove very frustrating to collectors and historians alike in the coming years.

For example, the issued load bearing vest had pouches for 4 magazines and one on the rifle, but our combat load evolved to issue 10 magazines minimum, where did the other 5 magazines go?

When it came to weapons we generally left the internals alone as there was no need to mess with them, but beyond that, if it could be tinkered with using a multi-tool or stuff found in the vehicle toolboxes, it got tinkered with.

[Peter Laidler]

Some of these 'improvements' were tacitly 'sanctioned' or 'overlooked' on operations when needs dictated the ends. Gaudy camouflage, paint sloshed here and there none too carefully - and yes, seen it splashed on the sight lenses too - and black tank/gaffer tape etc etc. But back at civilisation things got back to normal pretty quick.

Here's an example. Gulf-1. See those aircraft, all painted up with sharks teeth and mission strike tallies on the sides etc etc. Rifles painted in desert sand and black tank tape. Don't see the same when they're back here.

I would disagree to a degree about sniper kit being issued as camouflaged simply because how the xxxx would someone at Ord know where/which theatre of ops it was going to be issued to? He wouldn't! What about the season where camouflage changes? The BEST person to decide the camouflage needed for that week is the sniper or vehicle driver etc. That's why they teach it, mark the squads on their efforts and let them do it.

That's why combat clothing has always been based simply on a generic camo pattern.

[CINDERS]

Great definition Peter as it would be the snipers choice of camouflage arrangement in suiting the operational area they may have to change styles within the zone dependent on what ground they are covering as no use having a desert style patternation if your going across a green field!

Guess the pictured type of WWI set up would have been a bit harder to move around like as if the enemy would not notice that thing just appear over night in the churned up battle fields of WWI or the sniper in his really broken outline of a ghillie suit.... how things have changed....

[Warren]

Peter: This may help to clarify any confusion you seem to have about Canadian sniper rifles being camouflaged on an official basis.
Also in para: 2 you will find mention of CANTAS 2701...this is VIA BOMBER which I believe you previously also had a problem.
I have the complete file on this development however it has taken me almost an hour to get just this one file here from a back up that they did on my crashed computer. GRRRRRR
There is a lot more to come once they get my computer set so I can access the material I have here. KevG will be ecstatic with the Bren material. There is somewhere around 8000 plates of mainly previously unknown material.

[Peter Laidler]

All very fine Warren but as I said, I disagree to a degree.... But this experimental rifle doesn't indicate that camouflaged rifles/woodwork/metal fittings were ISSUED. Indeed, para 4 is EXACTLY what we were already using.... Sunkorite(?) over phosphate. And Armourers have been staining wood, albeit variable shades of brown since they began repairing rifles. We had a big bath of stain and instructions for its use! Maybe someone with one of these issued rifles can show us. Or were these two simply one-offs? That isn't indicative to me of 'camouflage issue'. Others may have other views of course.

Maybe you could get a computer geek to unravel your compu'a and find the tantalisingly lost docs.

[Brian Dick]

Wasn't the "camouflage" just a coat of green paint baked on much like the C No.67 telescope? I don't think it was a pattern of camouflage using different colors such as black, khaki, green, brown, etc. Maybe you could elaborate on the scope you have Warren? Green paint was also used on some service grade No.4 rifles during wartime and used in both the European and Pacific theaters of operations. I've seen a few No.4's, all British mfg with only traces left on the exposed metal but perfect paint on the underlying metal. I did have one produced at ROF Maltby dated '44 with about 98% of the green paint still intact overall. It looked like a factory job to me but I could be wrong. I always wondered if it was a green form of Suncorite but have to wonder as it doesn't seem to be anywhere near as durable.

[Seaspriter]

Very interesting -- really looking forward to more letters.

VIA BOMBER

I suppose this was the bomber shuttle service of new aircraft production from Canada and the US via Gander to the UK. Many were flow from the US by women aviators (separate but interesting story). Does anyone have any other info on what the bombers carried along with crew and mail? (just curious)

with only traces left on the exposed metal

The letter says the paint is resistant to abrasion -- so maybe there was another paint. And the pressurized wood treatment is new to me -- would like to know more.

Thanks for the interesting info.

[lediable]

Two unidentified snipers, in “ghillie” suits, of the 1st Canadian Parachute Battalion during an inspection by King George VI, Queen Elizabeth and Princess Elizabeth, Salisbury Plain, England, 17 May 1944. © Library and Archives Canada mikan-3298173

Claude

[Roger Payne]

Hey Brian! I have a ROFM 1941 4T that came from 'the batch' that retains quite a lot of green paint on it. It has been sort of patchily daubed over it in several places. I'm sure it was done by an end-user as it were, but it's cammed up all the same. A few months ago we had a thread about size 4 bolt heads, & it is in fact the same rifle that I posted a photo of at that time, although then I just concentrated on showing the bolt head.....

[Peter Laidler]

Unit Armourers were permitted to paint all their unit small-arms in this matt khaki colour preservative paint under authority during the war in order to make up for lack of local rust proofing facilities. The Armourers information sheet appendix in the Equipment Regs give all the details, down to the part number of the paint and mixing criteria for best protection.

There's no doubt that this is what it is and not 'factory camouflage.........'. That's why you don't see it on FTR rifles!