Mystery of the Missing Wartime Long Branch Snipers

[Seaspriter]

Perhaps all our global team can help solve what seems to be a "mystery" of missing Long Branch Snipers that were produced during Wartime and the scopes that were fitted to them.

Here's the quandary, in a nutshell: From those that have contributed to the Long Branch Sniper data bases, it appears that the very large proportion of the LB Snipers that are present and accounted for were from the Post War production, and very few from Wartime production. Where are the Wartime Snipers?

From the data base linking LB serial numbers to months of production (Long Branch - Linking Serial Numbers to Month of Production) and the Production Report (which starts on October 1, 1943) submitted by Assistant Production Manager Marshall in early 1946, he states “At the end of the 3rd quarter of 1943, total production of the No.4 rifle was 477,171” but makes no mention of any Sniper production (presumably 70 Snipers was a limited run – which may have been for trials in combat to test their effectiveness, which in turn may have led to a larger contract the next year) The 70 Snipers from 1943 would have had serial number in the 40L-50L range. Does anyone know of the existence of any of these?

68L32xx range of sniper rifles would have been produced in late May-early June 1944 No one seems to know how many were produced in this range, and very few have surfaced.

Marshall states in his report that in 1944: Total Snipers produced: 644 (these all seem appear to be in the 68L32xx or 71Lxxxx serial # block range beginning 71L0001) Note: the last Serial Number of a Sniper that has surfaced in this 71L series is 71L0644 – What happened to the other Snipers in the remainder of the series? (I have one in this range -- Doomed Long Branch Sniper Reborn and Seaforth72 has a couple). A number of those at the end of the production series appear to have 1945 dates on the receivers, indicating they were probably not date-stamped until they received their mated scopes. Few seem to have been accounted for.

Marshall states for Q1-‘45: Snipers Produced: 254 Total: 898.(do these all match the 71LXXXX serial # block? or another block of SNs?) (Note: These would have serial numbers 71L0655-0898 but none have been accounted for at this point.)

Marshall states for Q2-’45: Snipers Produced: 24, (Production fell due to not receiving the necessary telescopes) Total 922. .(do these all match the 71LXXXX serial # block? or another block of SNs?) (Note: These would have serial numbers 71L 899-923, but none have been accounted for at this time)

These would all be considered the Wartime Snipers. Here's what Seaforth72 shared with me from his data base:
1. 71L0276 ?
2. 71L0279 DATED 1944 Scope Missing, Seaspriter on Milsurps Robert Porter Lynch, Naples, FL USA
3. 71L0287 C No. 32 MK. IA 368C UNKNOWN
4. 71L0297 17977 17977
5. 71L0303 351C Cold Zero ? Alberta Canada
6. 71L0322 C No. 32 Mk. IA 301C B & B Arsenal
7. 71L0332 No. 32 MK. IA 3840 ?
8. 71L0350 C No. 32 405C paul87buck USA?
9. 71L0374 UK
10. 71L0403 C No. 32 Mk. II 471C UNKNOWN Italy?
11. 71L0414 C No. 32 MK. II UNKNOWN Canada?
12. 71L0435 C No. 32 Mk. I or IA or II 168C John ROBERTSON Canada
13. 71L0439 C No. 32 Mk. II 3854C 3854C UNKNOWN USA
14. 71L0555 No. 32 Mk. II 11189 11189 Colin Stevens Canada (British scope fitted in service) DATED 1944
15. 71L0573 C No. 32 Mk. II 690C 249C Colin Stevens Canada (mismatched C No. 32 MK3 scope DATED 1945
16. 71L0595 No. 32 Mk. III Canada
17. 71L0597 ? UNKNOWN USA
18. 71L0630 No. 32 Mk. 3 > L1A1? 116(C?) Graeme Barber NZ
19. 71L0644 696C 137(C?) Simon ? UK
20. 71Lxxxx 307C Van Xulu

This represents about 2% of the total production of the 71LXXXX rifle, which was the largest Sniper production run. The remaining 98% from Wartime Production are “Unknown Fate” (apparently Unaccounted for, Missing/Lost, or Destroyed). What happened to these other 1,000 rifles? Why are such a large proportion in the “unknown fate” category.

Once the war was over in Europe, Marshall goes on to state:
Q3-’45: Snipers Produced: 161, with total production of this item up to 1,083 -- production was progressing in a satisfactory manner, compatible with the receipt of telescopes. (do these all match the 71LXXXX or another block of SNs? or 90L 8XXXserial # block?)
Q4-’45: Snipers produced: 58, Total 1,141. .(do these all match the 71LXXXX or or another block of SNs? 90L 8XXXserial # block?)

Long Branch closed down normal rifle production in August, 1945. Marshall continues:
Q3-’45: Snipers Produced: 161, with total production of this item up to 1,083 -- production was progressing in a satisfactory manner, compatible with the receipt of telescopes. (do these all match the 71LXXXX or another block of SNs? or 90L 8XXXserial # block?)
Q4-’45: Snipers produced: 58, Total 1,141. .(do these all match the 71LXXXX or or another block of SNs? 90L 8XXXserial # block?)

He then states: Dec 31 1945: Small Arms Limited Uncompleted contracts: Sniper’s Rifle – 376; (these all seem to match the 90L8000 to 8376 serial # block)

Remarkably, 77 (20%) of these Post-War Production rifles are accounted for today.

(see 1945 Longbranch No4mk1*T Serial and Scope List )

These would be attributed to Q1-‘46 when all operations were taken over by the Small Arms Division of Canadian Arsenals Limited, and up to March, 1946, when all assets and liabilities of the company were turned over to the Department of Reconstruction and Supply and the company made application for the surrender of its Charter.

Why are so many of the Wartime Snipers missing? Or am I missing something? Who can shed some light on this?

Seaforth72 -- you have some interesting observations to share as well as conclusions about scopes.

Thanks for your help.
Robert

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[Sentryduty]

Robert, I have an idea about a resource I can draw on. Allow me to make a phonecall or two and see if I can help out.

[Lee Enfield]

I believe that the "missing" Long Branch snipers are easily(?) found in the 71L0000-71L0220 range.

I do not have any 71L snipers below 0200 in my data base, and I have 2 theories:

1) they were retained by the Canadian Army and have not been released
2) the 71L block starts at 0200 (not 0000 as was typical for the other "block" rifles) and continues to approx. 710

[mike1967]

Rifle 5 on that list, SN 71L0303 is with me in Australia. It had and was fitted up for a Lyman TP not a No32 but now sadly missing its scope and mounts.

[mike1967]

Sorry it's 74L0303 and its missing scope is 4407S, very close to yours Peter.

Rifle 5 on that list, SN 71L0303 is with me in Australia. It had and was fitted up for a Lyman TP not a No32 but now sadly missing its scope and mounts.

[Surpmil]

Seven or eight years ago a local scrapyard cut two into small chunks at the behest of the Gendarmerie Royale Canadien. The remains were gone before I found out. The description from a person who wouldn't know a No.4 from a Model 94 left no room for doubt that the story was true.

Were these rifles not all supplied to the UK MoD for disbursement to whomever they pleased? If so, they could have ended up anywhere; India, Pakistan, Greece, NATO, you name it.

[XL39E1]

42-L-7507 and 45-L-1459 were both converted to L42A1 spec. by Enfield sometime after 1970.

[Brian Dick]

I think the majority of early, (and late for that matter), production Long Branch snipers went into MoD service. The small number supplied were probably decimated due to use and attrition the same as many other wartime rifles. The only rifles I've had through here sporting Canadian Army ownership marks were 74L TP variants fitted with the REL base, rings and Lyman Alaskan telescopes. I have a 1943 50L rifle here that came with a mismatch British scope and bracket and a 1944 71L that was missing it's scope when I got it several years ago. Both now sport Canadian scopes and brackets. One with an REL Mk.1A and the other a Mk.2. Both rifles are from MoD service, have never seen FTR in England and sport the pre 1968 "England" country of origin stamp applied after they were disposed of by the MoD. I'd guess they were eventually shipped back to North America by importers of the day like Interarms. I did restock a legit 1942 dated LB "T" several years ago that had been sporterized but still retained it's original matching bracket and REL Mk.1 scope. Thank Christ the barrel wasn't cut off. It belongs to a member of this forum so maybe he'll chime in. It's the earliest variant I've ever had in my hands and I enjoyed putting it back. I had to cough up one of my last new LB forends at the time and it turned out very nice.

[limpetmine]

Brian,
I'll dig her out and post the relevant information you requested.
Limpetmine

[paul87buick]

Trials rifle with Canadian scope mount #L32394 BSA Enfield No 4 Mk. I (T) 1931 Sniper Rifle : Bolt Action Rifles at GunBroker.comAttachment 74267