Bavarian Correct Sling

[rcycles45]

Jim , I received these slings a few years back from a gent that told me they were used on the Bavarian carbines . I haven't seen any like them since or any reference that they were used on the Bavarian carbines . They have Numbers and what looks like names written on them like the leather slings .. Do you have any Idea about these slings ..
Bavarian Fabric Slings by rcycles45 | Photobucket

[Sleeplessnashadow]

(the dead links below could not be removed. The pics they were for were added back in so they're all here.)

First challenge is for many years what people have been calling "Bavarians" has included carbines used in the U.S. Occupation Zones of Hessen, Wurttemberg-Baden, the Bremen Enclave, Bavaria and the American Sector in Berlin. Add to this carbines sold by Bavaria to the Landpolizei in Baden-Wurttemberg (1/3 of which was the previous American Zone of Wurttemberg-Baden), the Landpolizei in Lower Saxony and to the Austrian Gendarmerie. Along with the carbines used by the agencies in Austria that were never used anywhere in West Germany.

The carbine that got me started doing this research, I was told it was used by the police in Bavaria by a number of people on various forums. when I contact an officer in Bavaria I knew, I learned the markings were those of the Austrian Gendarmerie in Lower Austria. Since then I've learned it was never in West Germany, it was given to the Austrians at the end of the Austrian Occupation in 1955 by the U.S. Military Assistance Program.

The next challenge is trying to determine which of these agencies used what and when and whether they had it made for them or inherited it with carbines from another jurisdiction.

Add to this that many of these agencies were not given U.S. slings and it was years before their jurisdiction had any made, if they had any made at all. The line level people did what many of us would do today if we didn't have a sling for a firearm made in another country. We'd use a sling from a different weapon. So what was used as a sling for a carbine isn't necessarily the same as what was issued as a sling for the U.S. M1 Carbines.

And I'm no expert on slings. My knowledge is limited to my own experiences.

I have yet to see or learn of information as to what, if any, slings were used by the police in Bavaria other than U.S. GI slings provided along with the carbines. I don't doubt they had some made at some point but none have the markings of Bavaria's agencies that I've seen so far.

There are several slings with German words that have turned up. Some on returns from West Germany that have Bavaria markings but I don't know if they were used by Bavaria as opposed to the carbines purchased from Bavaria by Lower Saxony and/or Baden-Wurttemberg. Lower Saxony didn't put markings on their carbines and bought them just before the occupation ended. Keep in mind Germanic surnames are common in many countries.

Slings I know were used in West Germany usually have the words Zieh Hier (Pull Here) on the snap. The sling below with the large FIX marking, the pics were shared by Bill Ricca.

Attachment 71290 Attachment 71299 Attachment 71291 Attachment 71292 Attachment 71293 Attachment 71294

Not to be confused with Knip Hier, which is Dutch for Pull Here. This first sling is actually black and has been sold by Northridge Gun Parts for a number of years. Couldn't find my pics of them so used this off Ebay instead.

Attachment 71295Attachment 71297

This sling is marked Knip Hier on the snap. I included it to show the metal as a lead in to the slings you were told were used by "Bavaria".

Attachment 71298

The leather slings in the earlier post on this thread included a batch on the far left of the pics that were slings from other weapons that had been adapted for use with the M1 Carbines. The two slings below were found on carbines returned by Austria to the U.S. Army. The two carbines had both Bavaria markings and Austrian Gendarmerie markings.
Attachment 71286Attachment 71287
Attachment 71300Attachment 71301

Attachment 71302Attachment 71303
Attachment 71288Attachment 71289
One of the things I've noticed with slings from other weapons adapted for use with the carbines is they sometimes have a mix of things from more than one sling or modifications. In the examples above, the use of the brown leather keepers with the tan canvas slings. In Austria the leather used by the police was black, as in West Germany. This brown leather was used by the Austrian Gendarmerie.

I suspect these two slings, like yours, were from other weapons and used as carbine slings. As to who used the slings, because of the carbines they were on when they arrived in the USA it's logical to assume they were used by the Austrian Gendarmerie. As to whether or not an agency in Bavaria used them and the Austrians inherited them I don't know.

I've seen a number of carbines used by the Bavaria Forestry Police with a variety of slings both WWII German military rifle slings and civilian hunting rifle slings. Given the weapons carried by the Austrians in WWII were the same as those carried by the Germans I suspect slings from several WWII Axis power weapons were used on M1 Carbines by the Austrians and Germans, separately.

Reality for the West German police 1946-1952 was, good luck on getting anything made for a carbine. They either used U.S. GI or made do with whatever they could get their hands on. Austria wasn't supposed to have carbines during the occupation of their country. Those they did have were on loan quietly from the U.S. Occupation forces to the Austrian Gendarmerie in the American Zone. Assuming the info on the numbers 56 was accurate info, in the previous post, the Austria Gendarmerie was having brown/tan leather slings made by Stolla in Vienna by 1956.

Sorry I didn't find my better pics. Fatigue.

Jim

[USGI]

I wonder if they came up with something other than USGI oilers? It looks like the tips on some of those slings would be impossible to thread around a standard oiler. - Bob

[imntxs554]

I seen a couple with these type and a leather Sling with a US Oiler. You have to soak it in water or hot water I forgot and you have to work it in and get it to stretch and it will work, but time consuming and really work at it. There is a YouTube video of a guy that has done it and explains it and he take his off and puts it back on. I had saved it, but either it moved or I can't find it at the moment. Jim works All nigjt and sleeps all day. Tonight email him and ask him he will tell you.


Frank

[Sleeplessnashadow]

Not uncommon to find wooden dowels or plastic rods used in lieu of an oiler to hold the leather slings in place on the carbines used by the Austrian Gendarmerie. Far as I know it was a Austrian Gendarmerie thing and not done in Bavaria.

Took me a couple guesses to master using an oiler with the leather slings. I use a liquid leather cleaner that cleans, softens and preserves the leather. While the leather is still wet, but softened, I feed the sling around the oiler. Not hard at all, and doesn't require any more time than if it was a GI canvas sling and oiler. Once the metal end is through just pull on the metal tab instead of trying to push the sling through.

Jim

[USGI]

Some of those leather ones look like the button comes out, which would make them easier to thread around the oiler. Those canvas ones having the riveted tabs, look thicker than USGI "D tips" - I bet they could be a real pain to install on a stock with a tight oiler slot. - Bob

[Sleeplessnashadow]

Attachment 71316

Buttons on that batch of leather slings I posted earlier were brass, plastic or steel. Vast majority were brass. Plastic was on the ones without the Stolla markings and I assume those came after Stolla went out of business in the 70's.

Jim