Newbie... Bren Gun Finish.

[tankhunter]

Or........Peter, AKA: 'Plastic-Peg'........... LOL

Pete, It's a play on words Mate. Mystic Meg = Plastic Peg!....

[Flying10uk]

Barry, if it makes you feel any better when World Wide Arms got hold of some ex Irish Army Mk3 Brens a few years ago and started selling them (U.K. De-activated) if my failing memory serves me correctly they were asking over £600. These were said to be genuine unmolested ex Irish Army in very good condition and were being sold at a time when there weren't many de-activated MK3 Brens on the UK collector's market. Currently there seems to be relative high numbers of MK3 Brens for sale hence the price has come right down. Quite why there are so many available at the moment I don't know unless, of course, the Irish Army purchased 50,000 Brens in the 1950s??? I wouldn't personally return it considering what it cost and also you have almost ran out of time because of the changes to the de-acc laws due to come into force on the 8th of April. No-one seems to know what exactly is happening with regards to de-accs in the U.K. after the 8th of April.

[Peter Laidler]

Oh, no......... Not the Irish Army again.......... that were (the ones I saw) accompanied by RAF paperwork and part numbers to equip the 70 plus Infantry battalions that didn't have air, armour or artillery support................

[BarryPayne]

Thanks Gents.

I'm keeping her, and for an update.... She has gone to a friend who is a gunsmith and has said that the metal will be treated to a proper clean up and finish! I won't be able to take work in progress photos, but will certainly take some once it's done. Then I'm going to take on some of the fantastic advice given re woodwork and continue the restore!

[Flying10uk]

Sorry Peter I couldn't resist it. One dealer (who I wont name) at Malvern, a couple of weeks ago, had a couple of long rows of Mk3 Brens for sale and went on to say that he had just purchased 500 MK3s. He'll have his work cut out to sell them all by the 8th of April. It will be interesting to see what he then decides to do with the remaining stock after that date unless he is planning to weld them into a solid lump of steel??? Barry when you get chance have a look at the serial numbers of the component parts to see if they all match. If you are lucky they will but most likely they wont or will be "forced" matched i.e. the numbers changed to match the match the master number on the receiver. The vast majority of Brens around today will not have fully matching serial numbers.

[BarryPayne]

Sorry Peter I couldn't resist it. One dealer (who I wont name) at Malvern, a couple of weeks ago, had a couple of long rows of Mk3 Brens for sale and went on to say that he had just purchased 500 MK3s. He'll have his work cut out to sell them all by the 8th of April. It will be interesting to see what he then decides to do with the remaining stock after that date unless he is planning to weld them into a solid lump of steel??? Barry when you get chance have a look at the serial numbers of the component parts to see if they all match. If you are lucky they will but most likely they wont or will be "forced" matched i.e. the numbers changed to match the match the master number on the receiver. The vast majority of Brens around today will not have fully matching serial numbers.

I'm pretty sure that I purchased my Bren from that same dealer!!
And thank you for the heads up. The numbers do match... And you are VERY right!! The barrel number has been forced matched. I thought that was strange. It does show the same number as the receiver, but when I saw Mk4 on the barrel, I thought it was a little suspicious.

[Flying10uk]

Could we see a picture of you dressed up in your re-enactor's uniform/kit, please Barry.

[Peter Laidler]

Can I put in a bid NOT to see you dressed up?

All this talk of 'force matching' does make me chuckle............ It's what we did every day of the week, every week of the year. Only we didn't call it force anything. It was just good housekeeping or sensible economics! If we replaced a shot out barrel with a new one we'd always match the TWO barrels up to be a pair. So you'd have one, say, brand new to replace the shot-out one and another, part used but perfect to fit to the gun. That way, the gun crew would run both barrels together. Fitting them would inevitably mean fitting a barrel nut that would tighten BOTH replacement barrels.

Then GUESS what we'd do.........? Yep, we'd stamp the master number into the new barrel, bar-out the old number from the perfect but part worn second barrel and stamp in the same master number and do exactly the same with the replacement, used but perfect barrel nut. Now we'd have a perfect Bren with a pair of perfectly matched and serviceable barrels, correctly and properly locked onto the gun with a part worn barrel nut. Nothing force fit about any of this but just what we were taught to do.

Thinking back a few years, and I hope Skippy, Tankie and Son will prod me if I'm wrong, but I don't ever recall any of the gun crews, quartermasters, EME's or the UEI/PRE teams ever commenting about the use of used/perfect parts. Indeed, we still do it to this day on the GPMG's. Waste not, want not.

The same would apply to a butt slide. If a butt slide failed some test or another such as an excessively worn front tripod mounting pin or was excessively loose in the gun body it'd be replaced with a new or part used one off the shelf and the old one would be put back on the shelf (after being re-bushed at the big Command workshop with facilities). Months later that butt sllde would be tested and fitted to another gun. Perfect.....? Then the old number would be filed out and a new one carefully re-stamped to suit*.

So in a unit, old Brens and L4's could have had everything replaced and renumbered during the course of its 60 year life.............. with multiple numbers barred out and renumbered to suit.

* Later L4's and Bren butt slides were NOT to be number stamped on the rear but engraved on the rearmost section, left side, above the pistol grip

[tankhunter]

Peter will fully concur, when I say I know EXACTLY what He is talking about.

it has always amused Me & I'm SURE Peter & other Brother Armourers. When Enthusiasts & Fellow Collectors. Go on about non matching manufacturer marked parts/Components Etc.
Akin to 'Stamp Collectors' & in the Military Vehcile Collecting Circles. As 'Rivit Counters'.

What a LOAD of Old Boll......Er. Spherical objects that is!!
Now rest assured, If you have a Bren with differing parts stamped with differing manufacturers markings. DONT Fret/Panic!.....

There is absolutely NO need to! Why?....I will tell you EXACTLY why not. Are you sitting comfortably?...Then I will begin. (Appologies to Childrens story Readers worldwide!)

OK, During the war, Parts/Componants were manufactured ALL OVER THE UK. By Large & Small Engineering contractors everywhere. The reason they were dispursed all over th place. Was so that If one factory got hit in a Bombing Raid. Another would be making similar parts, or could switch over. To making parts more urgently required. these parts would be sent centrally to Arsenals & Military Factories such as Enfield Lock Etc.
NO MATTER WHAT COMPONANT WAS MARKED WITH WHATEVER MANUFACTURERS STAMP/ID MARKINGS. They were ALL fitted to ANY of the guns on the production line. Coming through at ANY time during Manufacture. So you will see, it really Does NOT matter to have a gun. With TOTALY Matching manufacturers stamped componants!

This practice was also compounded, by Guns coming through workshops for total strip downs & Overhauls as well. IE: ALL parts were inspected for servicabilty. After degreasing/oiling. Then sand blasted, parkerised or blued where appropriate systems existed. The sprayed with the 'Special' Black Paint. (Today Suncorite is used) & baked in a special Oven for 30 mins till the finish was hard. The everything was Oil Dipped.
And the guns reassembled & Gauged. Final out Inspected, & sent back to the Appropriate units or central Ordanance Stocks.

So as you can see, it REALLY dosent matter about having totally matching Manufacturers marks!...However...there are 'People' out there who are MORE than happy to sell Legal Parts to you. If you want to part with your hard earned cash. To 'Match up' your guns.
So they ARE all matching in ID stamps!.....my attitude is: 'WHY one earth bother? When all that Cash could add up, & go towards ANOTHER Gun!!.....

[Vincent]

So as you can see, it REALLY dosent matter about having totally matching Manufacturers marks!...However...there are 'People' out there who are MORE than happy to sell Legal Parts to you. If you want to part with your hard earned cash. To 'Match up' your guns.
So they ARE all matching in ID stamps!.....my attitude is: 'WHY one earth bother? When all that Cash could add up, & go towards ANOTHER Gun!!.....

Do people really do that, match parts by manufacturer on dewats? It’s their money to spend as they choose. But I thought the whole idea was to preserve the history of these old guns? To me the more barred-out numbers, patches, etc, means the gun has some history. It had to be used to need those parts changed.

At least there’s no danger in matching parts by manufacturer on a dewat. Here we see it on live guns and it’s often dangerous. People change things like breech blocks. Then they don’t check the case headspace and are not always lucky.