WWII No4T SCOUT REGIMENT TELESCOPE MKII – EXTRA EYEPIECE

[smith3006]

I have two of these scopes but the one I am seeking further knowledge about is one with an extra eyepiece. I cannot find any past discussions/threads on this subject.
In regard to this one the scope is marked:

TELE.SCT.REGTS MKIIs
H.C.R. & Son Ltd
OS 126 GA
No. 11884
/I\

The extra eyepiece is simply marked “HIGH”.
Both leather cases and straps are the same colour and in very good condition but the locking straps and the buckles do show considerable wear. No markings to any of the cases or straps that I can see.
The scope itself (compared to my other well worn scope) is in excellent condition with the brass draw sections operating easily and smoothly whilst still maintaining their dark colouring (think that is original colouring) which made the photo of the markings difficult.
Thanks for any info and any idea of a value for insurance purposes.

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[Gil Boyd]

Smith3006,
If my memory serves me right the HIGH lens is 30X rarely seen as the standard issue 8X was sufficient for most applications. However, lads used to use Bushnell and other branded telescopes in green or matt black in preference due to the application of the 7 rules of concealment which sadly the old shiny brassed Broadhurst & Clarkson didn't do very well:

Shape, shine, shadow, silhouette, sound, speed and surroundings.

The original issue scout regiment telescope normally just comes with the 8X eyepiece, original sun shield extension, and also the anti glare sliding eyepiece shield.

[Son]

The TEL SCT REGT MkIIs did not have a second eye piece. The telescope it replaced in service, the Signalers (and GS)Telescope had the two lenses. The sig. telescope had a low and a high powered lens, whatever one not in use was in a leather case attached to the strap.
Here is a link to the MKL entry with the full stripping and maint. instructions for the TEL SCT REGT.

https://www.milsurps.com/content.php...tion-Manual%29

Here is the Tel Sig. MkIV with the two lenses
Attachment 71527

And here is a couple of TEL SCT REGT's with a TEL SIG MkIV. Note the main differences, the Signalers is a little longer and heavier, and it's case is made up of two caps retained on the strap with the case for the second lens. The Sct Regt case is separate, and a complete case.
Reading the link above you will see the Sct Regt is a 20 power scope. Cannot recall off the top of my head what the power the two lenses make the Sig.
Attachment 71528

[Peter Laidler]

I think that the standard shuttered eyepiece made the normal Sct Regt telescope x20. The Sct Regt tele didn't come with an extra eyepiece on the strap - or anywhere.

That extra High/Low eyepiece was from the old Telescope GS but while the old GS telescopes were in service into the 80's or so......... I mean the 1980's........., I never saw a HIGH eyepiece. Stand to be corrected of course but...............

[Bindi2]

Q. The scope is marked as a Mk2 and has a removable eye piece does your Mk2 have a removable eye piece.

[Son]

Q. The scope is marked as a Mk2 and has a removable eye piece does your Mk2 have a removable eye piece.

stay tuned, pictures coming...

Attachment 71547

Attachment 71548

Ok, from the pics.... The two eyepiece lens sets for the GS (Signallers) telescope are an assembled unit. The Sct Regt eyepiece lens group is separate to the cap- sliding into the rear of the tube until it stops on the rim, and the cap screws down to lock it in.

I unscrewed the two lens sets out of the GS caps... the Sct Regt cap is made the same internally with a thread to accommodate the GS lens sets. The main differences in the caps being the GS are marked "Low" and High" where the Sct Regt is different on the rear and not marked. The Sct Regt has a tinted filter that slides across the opening. One of the GS caps has a similar tinted shade, the other has a protective blanking plate that slide over the opening.

I tried changing the caps over and found the threads at the rear of the small tube on the two scopes are the same. The lenses can be swapped, and do work in each others scopes.

It would seem that although the rear lens group itself had been changed in its set up for the Sct Regt telescope, at least the rear cap from the GS was utilised in the new telescope. Being that the bodies of the two scopes are different diameters and the tubes are different lengths (the GS are a little longer) I measured the diameter of the tubes themselves. The small tube is a bare spot bigger in the Sct Regt, and the second and third tubes are smaller than those in the GS. That would tell me that there would probably be no other parts interchangeable other than the rear caps.....

I am wondering if the OP's scope had belonged to a range shooter who aquired the extra lens to suit a specific purpose....?

Anything I missed?

Yes... edit to add; PLEASE NOTE

Anyone who is considering working on/ restoring any of these types of scopes, please read Peter's post (post #15) WRT compatibility of parts. It is quite likely that the eyepiece threads on the two scopes I have pictured here being interchangeable without working on them is the exception rather than the rule.

[Bindi2]

Son I have no idea if you have missed any thing I would like to know every thing you do. So it is possible just to slide the High power eye piece into any Mk2 scope and use it no screws no tools just change and go.

[Son]

Son I have no idea if you have missed any thing I would like to know every thing you do. So it is possible just to slide the High power eye piece into any Mk2 scope and use it no screws no tools just change and go.

Mate, I just grabbed a couple of telescopes out of the cupboard in the next room and pulled them down on the kitchen bench. Took a fitters attitude to it checked everything relevant.

Trust me, I was surprised about the interchangeability of the bits. I would have swore they were different from scratch. I suppose any lens group... (hang on, time to start using correct terminology here).... "eyepiece cell" that fits can work due to the slide- focus being almost infinite in these telescopes. Yes, the eyepiece cell with the eyepiece and shutter (attached in one unit) from the GS telescope will screw straight into the TEL SCT REGT and give good vision. I don't know why you would bother with the HIGH eyepiece cell though. IIRC the HIGH cell gave only x22 and the TEL SCT REGT was x20. The eyepiece cell from the SCT REGT will go into the GS and the eyepiece will screw on to retain it. This was checked between a 1918 RJ Beck GS MkIV and a HCR SCT REGT.

Peter of course will know much more having had to deal with them as a paid maintainer, rather than a fiddling collector like me. Interested in any other's thoughts and experiences too.

[smith3006]

Son, that is brilliant and as Bindi2 says such knowledge and know how. It took several readings of each post to get it through my old finance mind (didn't inherit any of my fathers "fitter & turner" skills) until the penny dropped.

Thanks so much for taking the time over the dissection and photos let alone the text. As I said it took a little to sink in but I went and pulled my units apart and the construction of the additional eyepiece is exactly as you described. Whilst I had previously done so I hadn't seen the difference.

[Gil Boyd]

Interesting when you consider how many companies in both wars were producing these scopes to such a consistant standard, with in effect a 2” objective, and a magnification quoted in some military manuals as 20x, and in Part 42 of the ‘Notes on Repairs to Fire Control Instruments’ 1941 written down as 22x with greater sizes being developed post war.

Broadhurst Clarkson Ltd
Ross London Ltd
Watson Ltd
Ryland Ltd
R&J Beck Ltd
W.Ottway London Ltd
E.K.Cole Ltd

Anymore?