Windage on RIC Carbine

[Sentryduty]

The rifles shot to the left as a mass produced sighting error prior to 1900.

That bit was what I wanted to confirm, very good information, those tidbits are pieces that I like to keep in the back of my head for when I encounter oddities on the range.

[RobD]

Mike 1967: Apologies: as per http://www.thegunzone.com/dum-dum.html I too used the term dum-dum as slang to mean any expanding jacketed projectile. But I shall not dare to do so again.

Englishman-CA: a rear sight notch to the left, as on my MLE Mk I, if erroneously fitted to the RIC carbine would indeed bring the point of impact to the left. See How to adjust an iron sight - Wikiversity

[mike1967]

Mike 1967: Apologies: as per http://www.thegunzone.com/dum-dum.html I too used the term dum-dum as slang to mean any expanding jacketed projectile. But I shall not dare to do so again.

Yep, everything other than a FMJ is a Dum Dum nowadays.

[muffett.2008]

............or you could only pick targets moving from right to left, leade is already factored in

[breakeyp]

Reynolds in his book, "The Lee Enfield" discusses sighting issues with the Long Lees and is also applicable to some of the conversions. From the 1700's through 1900 new arms development consisted of manufacture of a small number of prototype rifles that were tested and evaluated. The accurate winner was sealed as the pattern rifle that all future manufacture was to be based on. The production sights were machined to match gauges built off the pattern rifle. There was no attempt to sight in each rifle. After problems in South Africa, authorities checked with manufactures in Germany and the US and were amazed that each rifle there was sighted in. Considering Britain's tactics, a bunch of guys in a line blasting away in volley fire at the enemy, it is not surprising that individual accuracy was not considered. They were building war rifles, not target rifles.

[englishman_ca]

I get confused with point of aim and point of impact.

If my rifle's point of impact is shooting to the right of point of aim, I crank my windage to the left, to move my point of aim onto point of impact.
The opposite applies if I adjust by using the front sight.

In a similar way, if my point of impact is below the point of aim, I crank my elevation up.

Or am I backwards?

If the carbine shoots 6 inches to the left at 50 yards, the front sight needs to move to the left a touch, OR the rear sight moves a touch to the right?

I'm confuzed and appologise for offering backasswards info, help me out here!

[Sentryduty]

I get confused with point of aim and point of impact.

If my rifle's point of impact is shooting to the right of point of aim, I crank my windage to the left, to move my point of aim onto point of impact.
The opposite applies if I adjust by using the front sight.

In a similar way, if my point of impact is below the point of aim, I crank my elevation up.

Or am I backwards?

If the carbine shoots 6 inches to the left at 50 yards, the front sight needs to move to the left a touch, OR the rear sight moves a touch to the right?

I'm confuzed and appologise for offering backasswards info, help me out here!

I used to be very keen with this stuff, but exclusive use of optical sights in the military has made me rusty, at the range you will often see me drawing a quick sketch on a target or pantomiming a notch and post with my fingers and observing practice adjustments before applying adjustment to the rifle.

Some definitions quickly.

Point of aim - The place on the target where the sights have been aligned by the shooter.

Point of impact - The place where the bullet strikes, which we want to be in the same place as the Point of aim.

Speaking strictly to windage:

In this exercise we are always attempting to regulate the sights to the bore, treat the bore as the fixed part of this process. If the bore were used as a sighting tube, and perfectly sighted on the bulls eye, the sights above should too be sighted on the bulls eye.

If the sight windage is off, the bullet strikes off the target we will say the to the right of the point of aim.

We have two options to make a correction in a perfect world, move the front sight, or move the rear sight.

If we move the front sight, it should move to the direction of the impact, in this case we should shift it to the right until the bullet hole and the sights align. This is also correct for optical sights.

If we move the rear sight, it should move away the direction of impact, in this case the rear sight should be shifted left until the bullet hole and the sights align.

Does that help? been awhile since I did my Weapons Coaching courses so I may not have explained it as clearly as I had hoped.

[Richard Hare]

Englishman,

You have it right in your post above!

All the best,
Richard.

[Bluenoser]

There is a simple way to remember sight correction.
Move the rear sight in the direction you want the bullet (point of impact) to go.
Or
Move the front sight in a direction opposite to the direcion you want the point of impact to go.

[Surpmil]

Early MLE sights have notch dead center. There were some retrofit rifle rear leafs to correct sighting with an offset to left issued in 1900. A notch to the left makes point of impact move to right.

Check...Carbine sights are graduated to 2000 yards. Rifle to 1800.

A rifle left offset sight would bring your point of impact back towards target. Might be worth a try to find one. Not correct for a carbine but, hey, if it works....

There was an approved pattern of leaf that had an windage adjustable slider in which a pin was inserted to take tension off the spring for adjustment. Rigby or Westley Richards, or both, also made a slider with a tiny knob and screw to move the slider left and right. I think I've still got the odd one here.