Indian L1A1 Scabbards

[Peter Laidler]

Their order of battle, doctrine and structure is very similar to ours right up to Division and Army level. In fact one of the old ILO's at work told me that a typical British Army, say, Sergeant would fit into and feel at home in an Indian Army Regiment within a week. Excusing the very different way of life of course - and pay! Some of their regiments (the Jats were there while I was there....) used to come and do joint training here. It was very low key but they were well trained and disciplined.

As for their kit......, I don't know. But since they were easily capable of making the standard bayonet and scabbard, then it seems bleedin' obvious to me that at they were well capable of making the longer bayonet, then they'd be easily capable of making equal quantities of extended scabbards to match. Just like we did! I mean....., it's not that there's a shortage of manpower or that the overtime bill will sky rocket. Just my view of things of course.

As I said, now that we all know that there is an apparent shortage of these extended scabbards and you have effectively perfected the idea, why don't you capitalise on it and make hay while the sun is shining

[tankhunter]

The Blade length of the Indian L1A1 Bayonet, has always made Me ponder on it. There must be a good reason why it is this long.
Thinking out loud on this topic, I am supprised that the UK never had a blade length this long also?

Our Potential 'Enemy' during the 'Cold War' was obviously the Threat from COMBLOC Countries. & those who have served, & indeed. ENDURED the MANY Winter Exercises in Germany.
Will recall, that the reason Winter Exercises were persued. Was because of the theory, that 'Ivan' would have gathered his Summer harvest in. & so was prepared with food, to effect his Potential Attack on the West!

Of the many, many Intelligence photo's I had examined at that time during my Own service there. It was apparent, that 'Ivan' did quite sensibly. Favour thick padded winter clothing.
Thus to my mind, a LONGER Bayonet Blade length. would have been FAR MORE Effective in use. To Penetrate this type of clothing when utilised.

So....this STILL leaves Me wondering. WHY the Indians in pretty much hot weather clothing, would want a blade length of this nature?
Yes, there were campaigns up in the mountain regions. Where Winter Protection would be needed. BUT, this would not nessitate the entire armed forces being issued with this Bayonet length. A question to ponder over?................

[Flying10uk]

They must have thought that an optimum length for a bayonet was between 12" and 10" because the Indian Army was, I believe, one of the first users of the 1907 bayonet to reduce it's length to 12". This they initially achieved by hacking 6" off the end of a standard length 1907 bayonet and then later they produced their own versions of the 1907 at 12" long from new.

[browningautorifle]

I had an example of that for a while, the 1907 cut back and cleaned up. Very nice example too. I liked it better than the ones they made short.

[Flying10uk]

I have a couple of their own short versions of the 1907 which had an un-fullered blade and I will post some pictures later. The last incarnation of it was not so attractive because it had a square pommel which hadn't been rounded off.

[bigduke6]

IMA did have the scabbards a few years ago, think they sold out quite quick.

[Flying10uk]

Here are my 2 Indian SMLE bayonets which were made 12" long from new but I believe that the false edge ground to the point of the MK3 is a later modification and that most MK2s & 3s had this mod.. The MK3 has the square shaped pommel and the pictures should also be self explanatory as to which MK they refer to.

The pictures haven't seem to have posted in the order in which I intended them to but with my limited I.T. skills I won't try to change it.

[marysdad]

I have been working long hours so am a little late to the game. The L1A1 was designated the 1A in India. Here is a 1A scabbard that came from the IMA lot some years back.



Pakistan also shortened P1907 scabbards for use with the No. 9 Mk. I socket bayonet.

[Peter Laidler]

India manufactured a longer bayonet for the L1A1 because its forces in the North and North-West of the Country, The Himalayas, against Chinese Infantry and Pakistan would be fighting an enemy clad in thick kapok lined winter warfare uniforms

[tankhunter]

India manufactured a longer bayonet for the L1A1 because its forces in the North and North-West of the Country, The Himalayas, against Chinese Infantry and Pakistan would be fighting an enemy clad in thick kapok lined winter warfare uniforms

So, I was 'sort of right' in my thoughts about the clothing thing Pete? Makes perfect sense now!