RX for Frosted Lands?

[mike16]

Mike 16, Exactly what was BS in my post or other posts, I did not know I had that reputation.

I'm merely trying to be agreeable with the consensus based on your perception.

As for your reputation , again... I Dont believe every thing I read on the internet as it might be BS.

[Frederick303]

Mike 16

Fair enough, the consensus disagrees with my point of view, though I still retain that view, based on match shooing experience.

[mike16]

Mike 16

Fair enough, the consensus disagrees with my point of view, though I still retain that view, based on match shooing experience.

And I respect you most of all for standing by your beliefs. What is the consensus anyway? nothing more than a herd of sheep.

Anyway.... back to the frosting.

I went to considerable length and effort to restore the shooting qualities of my 37 BSA III. It did not have all matching numbers but the essential parts all matched and would have been a good candidate for a restoration. Someone else also felt that way as the for arm had been split in the typical manner and a very nice and proper repair had been done. It was all blued rather than painted. The forarm woods were georgeous walnut but had been wet sanded to an hourglass shape and finished in some horrible plastic varnish overcoat. any way I sold it. But my point is that it had a matching barrel and I tried everything to get it to shoot. I felt that the methods mentioned above may have helped some but also i considered the possibility that my practice and evolving familiarity with the rifle may also improved its accuracy. I wanted to shoot it and I wanted it to be accurate as I am certain these rifles can be. but with accuracy only some what out to maybe 300 yards. it was a tough choice to sell it. My point is that I'm guessing many people have as a priority maintaining there rifle and barrel as a matched condition. and accuracy a close second concern.

some considerable blame has been pointed in the direction of the corrosive primers. they cause most of thier damage just beyond the chamber and just inside the muzzle of the barrel. my rifle had consistant wear through out the barrel. I dont know if it was 'shot out' or worn out from exessive cleaning.

I was severly warned about my cleaning procedure from a bench rest shooter. perhaps exessive cleaning out of fear of the corrosive prmer has caused damage to barrels. Corrosive primer residue is desolved with water not oils or many bore cleaning solvents. Also some solvents have amonia in thier contents. This, if left on a rifled surface will itself begin to rust the barrel after a short period of time. It can come out on a patch looking like a light brown copper color, copper not green color. most will assume its copper fouling and soak more amonia based bore cleaner in the rifle's bore. a viscious cycle that itself cane cause wear of the bore.

scrubbing the bore with an amonia based solvent and a copper wire brush will also leave green coloured fouling in the bore. its not comming from the bore but is residure remaining on the surface of the bore from the chemical reaction between the amonia based bore cleaner and the copper brush. when the patch is pushed through and it comes up green, the cycle begins again. some, myself included have gone as far and soaking the barrel for extended periods of time in.... amonia based bore cleaning solvents. this behavior over time wil eventually ruin any barrel.

some solvents include hydrogen peroxide, it does the same thing to your barrel. There are some bore cleaners that remove lead fouling, copper fouling. and powder fouling. some only remove one so you may have to select and use seveal brands to do all that needs to be done. another precaution is with leaad fouling. if you dont remove it and you alternate to a copper fouling removing solvent. keep in mind that the copper fouling removing solvent can get under the edges of the lead fouling and soak against the bore and cause corrosion thier too. It will appear in your barrel and a round patch or a circular rim of corrosion. if any type of fouling is an issue be as carefule with cleaning it out as you would with reloading. be detail conscious.

Once you have done all that you can to restore the life of your barrel. cleaning it is the next crucial step to preserving what you have left. cleaning a barrel is not a step but a ritual according to bench rest guys. You dont have to sacrifice a virgin. but ....

what about chroming the inside of the barrel and recuting it to specs.

[browningautorifle]

nothing more than a herd of sheep.

In this case a herd of sheep with bags of experience behind them dealing with this very thing...as opposed to simple opinion.

[Peter Laidler]

Another few words for consensus is, as my wise old mum used to say '......the wisdom of the crowd is rarely wrong'. Indeed, our UK politicians have JUST learned this well used phrase or saying

[mike16]

so any way.... frosted barrels

[CINDERS]

Not trying to take it much further as even though its a paste; pastes contain liquid liquids are not compressible anyone tried this stuff just curious bit like fire lapping as well.............! Look no ear plugs.........!!!
https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&r...28617741,d.dGo

[WarPig1976]

anyone tried this stuff

Ok boys and girls, what have we learned today? That's right!!!, Never trust a fast talking Russian dude with finger tattoos......Ever.

[Frederick303]

Sooooooo........

Not to resurrect a dying thread, and with due respect to the chaps from the Canadian and British MOD on this board that, well make this board the great place it is......

There is utility in polishing (carefully......) to remove and iron oxide/fouling build up out of a bore. As described in my previous post on this topic, as if done incorrectly it could very easily do more damage than good. The polishing is only done to remove the surface residue that cannot be cleaned up the normal manner, if there was active rust in the bore then there will be some iron oxide on the lands and in the corner of the lands/goove that a normal brass brush + solvent does not get rid of.

Here is the reasons why a competitive shooter would say this and someone who is not into that esoteric activity might not see it that way:

In US competitive shooting in we fire a course of fire of 58 to 88 rounds in a day, with the long line (22 rounds) fired at the end of the day when the gun is fouled and has been for several hours. Now unlike simple accuracy testing where folks shoot a 3 or 5 group @ 100 or 200 yards we sit down and pound out the 2 sighters +20 rounds for record in 12 to 14 minutes, and if the conditions are good a rate 2 shots a minute for 5 minutes is not unusual. The barrel gets hot. Fouling patterns matter. Done at 100 to 600 yards (depends on the range).

When you do this you see effects you might not with the more limited testing at shorter ranges. Issues such as

1) The grouping gets bigger as it fouls/heats up.
2) The center point of the group walks as it fouls, then jumps back periodically as the fouling is sweep out (or so I guess).
3) Occasional flyers.
4) A 2 or 3 overlapping group pattern where the barrel seems to move its center point around in a distinct pattern.

These are things you see in competitive shooting you might not in shooting 5 shot groups at 100 yards. In particular flyers show up at long range that doe not seem to appear at 100 to 200 yards. Shooting books tell a different story, as shots are plotted 1 by 1 in slow fire, with the shot called and plotted. So any case in looking in my old shooting note books I have the groups to show with the No 4 Malty, that the grouping tightened up (1) and (4) were eliminated by judicious polishing and re-crown process. Range of test was at 100 to 300 yard on the 2 MOA NRA target. Prior the barrel would move around the target black, making good groups but very frustrating After it would hold the 9 ring (more or less).

Same was true in the note book of the M14 referenced prior., Only the pattern was 2 and 3, once again fixed by a careful polishing to get ride of any surface rust, black dark on the surface pattern that cannot be removed by a bore brush. The data book does not lie, the accuracy returned to its former quality tested at matches from 100 to 600 yards.

Both also had the crown redone at the time, but at least in the case of the M14, I very much doubt that was an issue (could have been with the Maltby). In the case of that M14 the barrel was removed at 3805 rounds, not far off the typical tube life for a Douglas barrel. 1945 Maltby barrel still sits on the rifle, well worn, bight bright looking (until you take a look with a bore scope)

So there you have it.

[Bruce_in_Oz]

Reference:

Specification, S. A./462-P
Rifle No 1 Mk111
1938

42. Rifle, testing of, -
Every rifle will be fired at a paper target, with full sight, leaf and slide down, at a range of 100 feet, from a mechanical rest. trial shots will be fired, if necessary, and the foresight will be adjusted for lateral deviation, or will be replaced by another foresight to correct vertical deviation. Then five rounds will be fired from the magazine; if the rifle fails to put four shots out of the five into a rectangle 1- inch broad and 1 1/2- inch high, or if the blade, foresight, requires to be set more than .03-inch to one side of its normal position, the rifle will be returned to the manufacturer.

(My 2c worth: These are mass-produced, battle implements, NOT bench-rest rifles!)

To continue, ammo Note from the same source document:

43. Ammunition. - The ammunition for the above test will be specially selected to give good figure of merit.

---------------------------------------------

Thus, one needs "good" MkVll BALL to do the job properly. Random, "odd", "not-quite" Mk Vll etc. just won't cut it. MkVlllZ is not kosher, neither are home-brews using fancy boat-tailed HPs.

Had yet ANOTHER discussion with some chaps at the range this morning: apparently one of the Oz bullet-makers has twigged that there might be a market for a 174gn, flat-bases hollow-point with the same external profile, and, approximately the same static "balance" as MkVll ball.

I'll believe it when I see a box of samples, but it MAY be a start.

NOBODY is going to tool up to make "proper", compound-cored, MkVll projectiles unless someone stumps up for the first million.