Early M F 303 rounds

[CINDERS]

A while ago I picked up a 303 bitza 32 cartridge packet at a military fair in Perth West Au I brought it more for the packet really (M F 14 Aug 1957).
Anyway I had only had a vague look at the show of what was in side but picked out it had 4 x 1920 C A C Mk VII in there so that's not to bad I thought. So tonight I had a really good gander and found some very early Mk VII M F rounds which was the real bonus for my collection; (Munitions Footscray)

M F's as follows;

3 x 1928's with one round actually dated 1 28
Singles;
1927
1933
1937
1939 (All cupro Nickle with 3 stab crimp)

Then M F 's from 1950 through to 1962 missing the 51 & 61 there are 2 x M H (Hendon) in there with the balance being un-sequential 1940's+ M F's to finish off the packet.
How hard are the earlier dates to get I am not a big time collector as some of my friends but sometimes its good to discover some gems. T I A

Information

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[mike1967]

How hard are the earlier dates? - Some are extremely hard, especially the month year ones around the 30s. The ones you have there with the full date eg; 1933, are made for air service.

[RCS]

Here is a Mark 11 C, Mark V1 and a Japanese 7,7 for their LewisAttachment 75709Attachment 75710


Can the 7,7 Japanese be fired in Lee Enfields ?

[englishman_ca]

Canadian rounds. I continue my search for the elusive Mk.III.

[CINDERS]

There was a discussion I found back in 2009 on this matter in milsurps also various sites other than here with arguments on the 303 being shot in a Arisaka basically they are saying the bolt will not close over the base of the British round and apparently the IJA and IJN has 3 different rounds rimmed/semi-rimmed/rimless as well as the captured weapons being used by back line troops. I guess the quartermasters would have been tearing their hair out with that lot.
30/06 ammo can be made to work in the Arisaka but the shoulder needs to be set back and the neck trimmed. The simple fact is you should only fire the correct ammunition in your rifles also the late war Arisaka's the action hardness was a little suspect and in fact from what I have read quite dangerous so the Japanese did us a favor putting their soldiers at risk.

[CINDERS]

mike1967 when you say full date do you mean the month then the date E.g 1 28 or if it is 1928 denoting air service.

As the dates on the rounds did have the month and the shortened year (pics)

[CINDERS]

Some other little bits as a side line, I always look for other pieces of ordnance to collect
Top - Splintex dart from the 90mm Recoiless rifles used at the battle of Coral in Vietnam; "Each Splintex round contained 7,200 flechettes"

Center - 2.75" rocket dart from rocket M255E1/A1 Flechette warhead 14.0 pounds (6.4 kg) 1,179 (60 grains) (3.9 g) flechettes

Bottom - Mk VII 303 round for scale puposes

[mike1967]

mike1967 when you say full date do you mean the month then the date E.g 1 28 or if it is 1928 denoting air service.

As the dates on the rounds did have the month and the shortened year (pics)

Full date, as in 1928, 1943 etc is Air Service Ammunition.

[Eaglelord17]

There was a discussion I found back in 2009 on this matter in milsurps also various sites other than here with arguments on the 303 being shot in a Arisaka basically they are saying the bolt will not close over the base of the British round and apparently the IJA and IJN has 3 different rounds rimmed/semi-rimmed/rimless as well as the captured weapons being used by back line troops. I guess the quartermasters would have been tearing their hair out with that lot.
30/06 ammo can be made to work in the Arisaka but the shoulder needs to be set back and the neck trimmed. The simple fact is you should only fire the correct ammunition in your rifles also the late war Arisaka's the action hardness was a little suspect and in fact from what I have read quite dangerous so the Japanese did us a favor putting their soldiers at risk.

The Japanese had some serious ammo issues due to how many different types they were using (7.7R, 7.7 SR, 7.7 rimless, 8mm Nambu, 7mm Nambu, 9mm revolver, 6.5x50sr, a variety more machine gun cartridges, etc). The Japanese Arisakas even the last ditch rifles are all perfectly safe. They may have cut some corners on the quality by the end, but the important parts were still up to snuff. The only Arisakas that are actually dangerous to use is to shoot the training rifles, for the simple reason they aren't designed to actually shoot rounds and consequently blow up. This is also where the rumours started in regards to the Arisaka being a weak action as USGIs not understanding the markings on the rifle would sometimes mistake a training rifle for the actual thing. There was also the Naval special rifles with cast iron receivers. Even those were safe to shoot for the simple reason the rifle doesn't lock into the receiver on those rifles, rather a section of the barrel.

I would be curious however to find out the pressures of the 7.7x58r the Japanese used to see if it is at the same pressures as .303 or if it is higher. Maybe someone with a stronger action rifle (like a P14 or Ross) might be able to find out.

[CINDERS]

Here is a WRA round with the full date as mike1967 explained notice the tabs and domed primer, tabs to stop the primer backing out or coming loose causing issues with the MG in the plane. I have also included a list to help those like myself that are still learning about the cartridges

Just as a last on I have this Dominion 303 (DC) 1941 it is a Mk 6 but what I cannot trace is the G & Z is the G for Gallery the Z prefix was used to denote the Vickers boatail rounds. Also there are no crimp marks on the neck visible as if it were pushed in somehow these would remain a standard M F round is used on the left. Just want to learn from those that have the experience.