"Folded up" British bayonet frogs.

[Peter Laidler]

You're right BAR! The difficult drill movement was the SQUAD WILL UNFIX BAYONETS.............. SQUAD......UNFIX. And if it was a cold morning and your hands were cold OR you had gloves on, you could rest assure that a few of the squad would not unfix them properly or fumble it and drop a couple and..........

[browningautorifle]

fumble it and drop a couple and..........

Don't be droppin' your bayonets...it's not on!

[tankhunter]

Ill just shove this bit of info in, as I feel it MIGHT just clarify this topic...perhaps?.....

With a '37 Patt Bayonet frog, folded in the manner previously described. I THINK, the posts describing this method. refer from Graham Priests book 'The Spirit of the Pike'. It is a long time since I dug my copy out (& Time permitting!) to read it!
But,..If I remember correctly. I THINK Graham was referring to this 'method' as an RAF modification? I cant comment any further on this at the Mo. But if any of you chaps has a copy of this in depth work. Do dig it out & check out what I have mentioned. As I say, It's been a long time since I have read mine. but I'm SURE He mentions this topic in his Book?....

[Peter Laidler]

BUT............ Always aware of what's previously been written and pontificated over, you CANNOT fix bayonets if it is folded up like this as well as the other problems associated with folding it up. And as the RAF , Navy, RM and Army drill instructors were ALL taught at the Guards Depot using the same All Arms Drill Book (the bible for drill-pigs), they'd need full length frogs to take part in the course. So what did the RAF do I ask?

[browningautorifle]

So what did the RAF do I ask?

NOT rifle drill...my thought is that you don't wear a frog on your pants' belt. Always, no matter what, you wore a web belt with bayonet only, even if in dress for the trooping. The US had a provision for wearing equipment on pants belt but had rigs for that very thing. There's a canvas tab available for securing the #4 scabbard into the long frogs... So, who has Graham Priests' book?

[old-smithy]

27th July 1944 A.M.O.N. 775 describes how the frog is reversed and folded over to tighten the loop for the No4 frog, this was amended in 1944 A.M.O.N 988 this was for RAF, for army it was No375 1944 for Army, it shortened the frog but removed any needs for re stitching of the frog to fix the No4 scabbard, there were earlier amendments that had slits stitched in the top loop to take the No4 frog stud. If you have a copy of Carter it is No154, if you wait till towards the end of next year it could be ion VolIII of my books on frogs.

---------- Post added at 10:19 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:17 AM ----------

Note this actually results in the loops beign upside down, with the belt loop passing through the top loop and exiting the bottom one.

[old-smithy]

Peter, since it was a 44 dated instruction it is likely that by the time you entered it was no longer practice as they had the special made No4 frogs by then, this regulation would have been for 07's frogs

[Peter Laidler]

Got that Carl...... but what is an A.M.O.N.? I'm totally bamboozled now......... According to my wife, it's my age

[browningautorifle]

I'd never want to argue with Carl...but this still doesn't make ANY sense. Wonder if it was one of these pipe dreams they wrote up, paid someone for saving all that money and then never even used?

[old-smithy]

Got that Carl...... but what is an A.M.O.N.? I'm totally bamboozled now......... According to my wife, it's my age

AMO is Air Ministry Ordnance, the N is part of the number so it should be AMO NXXX (sorry need my glasses obviously)

Jim, I looked at mine and the belt loop is still 2" but don't know how big the belt is normally. I doubt it was a pipe dream as the first RAF one was amended to remove a cut in the loop to take the frog stud, and the Army made their own ordinance for it. I remember this discussion recently on one of the forums as pictures showed knives/bayonets being carried on the webbing not the belt high up and in various ways that made carrying and drawing less problematic.