Ammo options...

[Colonel Enfield]

You have your ideas on where the market price should be that's fine just don't complain when you cant buy at the price you want to others are getting a bargain in their eyes.

When those people have $20k to drop on a single gun I'm going to complain if it means they're pushing the prices up on everything else and for everyone else because the deep-pocketed ones think they're getting a "bargain" spending $1000+ for an unremarkable WWII Lithgow SMLE Mk III*

[Bindi2]

Go and find a 1935 Lithgow in firing condition then a 1935 armourers cut away. If that is to hard find a set dated the same year marked to each of the Military Districts. Maybe with luck find the rifle either side of the shield/MA change over. Then there is the South Australian Police rifles consecutively numbered. The list goes on and on for themes to collect for. The supply is shrinking the price is climbing the longer you wait the more you will pay. I am from the era of GTs, GTHOs wishing I had a couple of them in the shed from new at the then price looking at todays prices. What value do you put on a Whitney marked one, the first and last one made at Lithgow, the deepest pocket at auction always wins. I have both won and lost and will continue to do so until I have what I want or die in the attempt.

[CINDERS]

Like me going cheap a MkIII brought some 9 years ago for $100 yep was an ad on our club room wall rang the chap is it in good condition Oh? surely yes it is, Is it all there yep it surely is and the barrel condition Oh its very nice actually.
Well it turned up the thing was minus = No sling, No Mag, No safety well not a real issue for those except it was a 1916 5MD (how fortuitous I thought) the only real down side was it cost nearly 6 times the cost of the rifle to get it back to my OCD correct with period & era Lithgow parts (I did put a Lithgow star stamped I think transitional mag on it also it has the early type star on the follower.) right down to the Lithgow 5MD 07 bayonet & 5MD scabb both purchased separately and finally a black (not blackened) 1916 Wrights sling. So even bargains can cost you plenty.
The "H" barrel was replaced in 1937 for some reason as it has no FTR markings on it save for that weird stamp the circle & ? on the reinforce which no one here has been able to decipher yet.

[Colonel Enfield]

Go and find a 1935 Lithgow in firing condition then a 1935 armourers cut away. If that is to hard find a set dated the same year marked to each of the Military Districts. Maybe with luck find the rifle either side of the shield/MA change over. Then there is the South Australian Police rifles consecutively numbered. The list goes on and on for themes to collect for. The supply is shrinking the price is climbing the longer you wait the more you will pay. I am from the era of GTs, GTHOs wishing I had a couple of them in the shed from new at the then price looking at todays prices. What value do you put on a Whitney marked one, the first and last one made at Lithgow, the deepest pocket at auction always wins. I have both won and lost and will continue to do so until I have what I want or die in the attempt.

I think we're talking at cross purposes here - I'm not talking about specifically collectible rifles so much as generic .303s. We're trying to get younger people interested in service rifle shooting but many of them can't afford to buy an SMLE. They don't care about the fact it's from a rare year or has markings from three different countries on it - they want a reliable SMLE that will go "bang" and put a .303 bullet through the centre of a service rifle match target at up to 300m. Increasingly, they're not likely to find anything fitting that description for less than about $750, heading towards $1000 if it's in really nice shape. And for that sort of money they can buy a new rifle that is guaranteed to work perfectly - sure, it's not a service rifle, but if they can only afford one rifle, they're likely to lean towards the "new one" because they also know they're not likely to get ripped off buying it.

That is not a good state of affairs for service rifle shooting - or, longer, term, collecting. All power to you if you're in a position to look for rare or specific rifles and pay a premium for them - I'm glad you're in that position.

[Bindi2]

Brand new in the wrap No4 Mk2s cost between $2,000 to $2,500. The quality of these rifles is of a much higher standard than most new hunting rifles.
I have range rifles in my collection from before I started range shooting in the 60s up to todays breeds. My go to work rifle is a No5.
I have similar issues with young guys who want to shoot F/O , FS, TR or FTR. The guys who shoot small bore say the same thing so you are not alone or a lone voice.
My hand guns are now worth more than I paid for them new in the 70s and I still use them. I think there is a thing called inflation at play here and I reckon we don't want deflation to occur any time soon.
I have a Q Colonel. How long has Service shooting got left. The Numbers of armourers who know how to service them properly and have the correct tools to do so are becoming another memory. Parts I am always on the lookout for parts including furniture, the supply has dried right up mainly because a certain PM sold all the Gov stores out of the country.
Importing parts is expensive like you wont believe. Parting rifles out on E-Bay is big business and a high earner.

[CINDERS]

I did a quick run on used guns found 3 MkIII's $400 with central sight, $500 Fair, $550 good and 1 No.4 $650
It is like Bindi says C E inflation niche market as they are not making them any more spares are drying up hence the new manufactured barrels on it goes you do not need a degree to see where the markets at but seriously I like Bindi have been at this for 45+ years and this is what the young guys/gals look at and wonder how they will ever afford it. They may get lucky and an older shooter getting out of the game may sell their lot outright or piecemeal anyway that is one source or using the gunfraternity (Clubs) to eek out a SMLE at a good price. Our Military side of the club here in Busselton is cranking along quite well without a sign of let up 100+ members we had just before xmas 2 saturdays numbers were 43 then 40 shooters turn up for the 100yd burst, those were not comp days either but about normal for most of our Military/Field shoots. We try to structure our shooting to help the youngsters so at 100 they can have a go at a .22 rim fire we still shoot at a Fig 12 anyway they enjoy it.

New shooters are very well catered for with members taking them under their wing and assisting them with guidance how to shoulder the weapon correctly to correct positions and so on this is where it starts that when they turn up new and knowing no one the clubs cater for them, we have 303 club guns or like members who will offer their rifles for a prospective member to shoot like a K98 or K31, Mosin!
This even extends to helping them when they get the gear to reload their ammo helping them set up the gear and what to watch for to avoid the fo pars we have encountered in all our years of reloading and they genuinely appreciate this
The no. of guys now shooting full bore has diminished considerably over the last 5 years with F class & Field rifle/Military taking up the slack.

Now then has armedeus76 got his 303 yet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Colonel Enfield]

That's actually an interesting question Bindi raises about how much longer Service Rifle shooting has. I think it's going to be around for the foreseeable future - there are still people shooting muskets, after all - but I can see it becoming increasingly niche over the next 30 years or so, when even the "newest" SMLEs will be a century old.

None of the "regulars" at my service rifle club are under 30, although we're working to change that and have a few younger folks coming along sporadically.

What I suspect is we might see a change away from SMLEs towards other military surplus rifles, though - or someone will decide it is economically worthwhile to start making new reproductions of some of the old rifles.

[CINDERS]

We discussed the AIA issues reproducing the No.4 if it happens again they will be inhibitively more expensive that an old war horse.

[Bindi2]

The problem with the LE is the Draws which means regular maintenance of the furniture, BLO and the knowledge of how to do it. Followed by barrels which seems to be solved . I doubt that there will be a market for Repro rifles there are to many crap ones out there for the foreseeable future parting out will help in the short term. The cost of making No1 actions was why the No4 came about. 3D printing may change that. I have MLM,MLE and LEs over 100 yrs old that still shoot ok but how well will the next owner maintain them.
As Cinders has said a little stock piling of supplies and gear for later on is good insurance in the newer disciplines maybe a better option for some.
We suggest to those that want to shoot F/S not to but go to FTR. One is Australian only the other is International more options same cost just a little different gear and rules.
The death knell for service shooting was the banning of SLRs and the failure of the Lithgow SS to the bolt actions.

[Colonel Enfield]

We discussed the AIA issues reproducing the No.4 if it happens again they will be inhibitively more expensive that an old war horse.

Not necessarily - Imagine if someone like Uberti decided it was worth their while to do it, for example? That might keep the cost at something more accessible, especially 30 years or so from now.

I believe a lot of the issues AIA had were to do with getting the guns into the US (something about parts of them being made in Vietnam and not eligible for import or something like that? I recall they had problems with importers as well) along with issues around actually communicating with the market about what they were doing - I don't recall seeing much in the way of advertising from them and there was certainly a lot of "Who are these guys and why does no-one know anything about them???" on the net at the time. This might be interesting reading, for one perspective on it all: The Mystery of Australian International Arms

Personally, I always thought AIA's big failing was not making an SMLE. Didn't have to be internally identical (I know how fiddly they are), but everyone I know who might have been interested in the guns said "I want a modern SMLE in .308" and instead they got a really expensive No. 4 and weird sporterised looking rifles in a calibre most people don't have ammo for.