M1891 Argentine Mauser

[stonewall56]

I finally found a photo of my old Argentine Mauser that I gave to my son. I had to covert the photo from a Publisher file and it's not by itself as it's laying next to one of its brothers.

[jamie5070]

I have two that I have yet to take to the range, but hope to soon. One engineers carbine and one rifle. Both are in the "C" serial range and my brass handled bayonet is 1102 away from the rifle.
Does anyone know if the rifles were originally issued with the same serial numbered bayonet?
john

[Oregon Bob]

I have an 1891 Argentine mauser that's in beautiful shape, with the crest.

It's been to the range once -- couldn't keep the rounds on an 8 1/2 x 11 sheet of paper at 25 yards.

Was using a friend's reloads. My friend's 1891 shoots just fine with the same ammo.

I'm going to try some different ammo -- I got a few boxes of Privi Partisan a while ago. and I also have some corrosive milsurp. Next on my list: give it a good cleaning and try
again.

Oregon Bob

[Patrick Chadwick]

Oregon Bob, try the following. It's not micron engineering, but it is good enough to narrow down the problem, which is probably in the throat. And the results may give you a great surprise!

If you look at P. 55 of "Mauser Bolr Rifles" by Ludiwig Olson, you will find a drawing of the chamber-throat transition area of the Argentine Model 91. This section is so long that just about every bullet you can find will be completely free of the case neck before starting to engage the lands. It is a real free-bore. No use in discussing why Mauser thought that was a good idea in 1891. that's how it is and we have to live with it.

Try this: get a meter/yard length of screwed brass (NOT steel) rod. Something like 6mm X 1 or 1/4" x 28. Close the bolt. Feed the rod down until it is sitting on the bolt face. Now run a nut down the rod until it just touches the muzzle. I also use a ring with a grub screw outside the nut (away from the muzzle) so this can be clamped for the next stage.

Now withdraw the threaded brass rod. Remove the bolt and tilt the rifle down towards the muzzle, so you can slide (not drop) a bullet into the chamber and down the throat.
Now hold the rifle horizontal. Insert a rod into the action behind the bullet and push the bullet forwards until it JUST touches the lands. If you now reinsert the brass rod and push it gently down the barrel, while still holding the rod at the chamber end, you will be able to feel the point where the rod just pushes the bullet off the lands again. I said this wasn't micron technology, but with practice you can feel this point to an accuracy of 2o thou or so. Now run the nut forward until it just touches the muzzle again. The distance the nut has moved is the maximum overall length of cartridge you could theoretically use. I say theoretically because if you measure this distance you will probably find it is much, much longer than your PRIVI/Partisan cartridge. In fact, in the case of my Engineer's Carbine, it was 17 mm longer than the cartridge case + bullet!

I couldn't get all the shots on the paper either, at 50 meters. The PRIVI bullets, or any other boattail type (I also tried Sierra), just fly unguided down the freebore, hit the throat on a skew, and we have both seen what kind of (in)accuracy that produces.

The only way to deal with such a freebore is to have the largest diameter bullet that is safe in that rifle with the longest cylindrical section you can find - to keep the bullet as straight as possible until it engages the lands.

Next stage: the 174gn flatbase bullets as used for British 303 ammo. Better, but still poor. An dI need them for my Enfields.

Finally: the Hornady flat-base round-nose type. This has the best fit I have found up to now. The long cylindrical portion guides the bullet as well as you can, unless you go to customized lead bullets. These bullets improved my Engineer's Carbine up to 3" groups at 100 meters, and that is for me the end of the road at present, as I just have not got the time for casting 7.65 mm bullets as well as keeping my BPCRs and muzzle-loaders fed.

Patrick

[Larry Gibson]

cafdfw

Looks like your father did a very nice job sporterising the M91. While it has no "collector" value so what? If that were mine and my Dad had sporterised it and used it that rifle would be far more 'valuable" to me as a family heirloom than any "collector' grade M91 would or could be.

Yes it is entirely safe to fire modern ammo in it. Modern ammo (Norma, PVRI and Hornady) are all loaded to the original pressure levels. I have pressure tested all of them with an Oehler m43. The are actually less pressure than the Argentine milsurp that I've tested. I've found the Hornady 7.65 Argentine at Cabella's without problem. It is loaded with hornady's 150 gr SP (.312) and chronographs 2761 fps out of my 24" barreled M91. The pressure is 53,200 psi(M43) which corresponds fairly well to the old 45,000 CUP pressure for SR Mausers. It also is quite accurate in my M91.

Were I you I would get some factory ammo and a reloading outfit and use that rifle on a couple deer/pig hunts or maybe and antelope hunt. Loaded with the .311 gr Sierra gamekings at 2550 fps it would also make for a nice elk rifle. Use it, think of your father, and pas it on in the family so they will remember you and your father.

Larry Gibson

[Harlan (Deceased)]

Thank you Larry.

I took my dad's old Mauser to a gunsmith and it checked out OK by him.

Several years ago someone told me these were unsafe to fire and I put it in my safe and never attempted to find ammo for it.

I live in Texas and have hunted whitetails and pigs with a compound bow only for the past fifteen years, but health issues are on me now and I couldn't hunt for the past two years. (Spine disease and an operation)

Since your message I tried to find ammo here in anticipation for maybe hunting next season, but so far I haven't found anything.

It's funny how things 'click' in your brain but I remember that my dad had two old boxes of ammo in the 'Norma' brand for many years in the back of his safe near his old Mauser. When my dad died my mom emptied his safe of most everything.

I hope I can find the correct ammo soon and take it to the range. The old scope still has clear optics but I have no idea if they will print after 40 years.
(It would be very cool if they are still close!)

cafdfw

Looks like your father did a very nice job sporterising the M91. While it has no "collector" value so what? If that were mine and my Dad had sporterised it and used it that rifle would be far more 'valuable" to me as a family heirloom than any "collector' grade M91 would or could be.

Yes it is entirely safe to fire modern ammo in it. Modern ammo (Norma, PVRI and Hornady) are all loaded to the original pressure levels. I have pressure tested all of them with an Oehler m43. The are actually less pressure than the Argentine milsurp that I've tested. I've found the Hornady 7.65 Argentine at Cabella's without problem. It is loaded with hornady's 150 gr SP (.312) and chronographs 2761 fps out of my 24" barreled M91. The pressure is 53,200 psi(M43) which corresponds fairly well to the old 45,000 CUP pressure for SR Mausers. It also is quite accurate in my M91.

Were I you I would get some factory ammo and a reloading outfit and use that rifle on a couple deer/pig hunts or maybe and antelope hunt. Loaded with the .311 gr Sierra gamekings at 2550 fps it would also make for a nice elk rifle. Use it, think of your father, and pas it on in the family so they will remember you and your father.

Larry Gibson

[Harlan (Deceased)]

PS -
Long story about this little boar, but he attacked me twice while I was ground hunting on a hillside late in the deer season. He ran me up a tree at one point. As it turned out he had been wounded from a gun shot in the top of his snout and he was mad at the world.

I'm too old for this stuff now. Guns again.

[nick81401]

i pic up one at the pawn shop for 175. dollars out the door

[Calif-Steve]

I have recently seen M91's for sale in Shot Gun News. The story goes that they are recent imports from Argentina. Not over priced, either, but they are incomplete guns. Might be right for the right guy. They were in storage for many years and are not beaters. Some mint barrels in the mix, I understand. Just a heads up.

[Waffen41]

I have recently seen M91's for sale in Shot Gun News. The story goes that they are recent imports from Argentina. Not over priced, either, but they are incomplete guns. Might be right for the right guy. They were in storage for many years and are not beaters. Some mint barrels in the mix, I understand. Just a heads up.

Do you know if there are still ads in SGN for the 1891s?

I have purchased several 1891 and 1909s Cav Carbs thru mail order and they were all
very poor condition. Started looking several decades ago.

I would like to find a decent, VG or better 1891 Cav Carb. I have an engineers carbine which I love. Only now I only shoot it occasionally because I can't see the tiny sights. My first centerfire rifle was an unfired 1909 which I purchased at a hardware store about 1969. I still have it. Still my favorite.
My dad bought one too and I latter went back and got another. All unfired condition.
I later sporterized one because I wanted to see what it could do with a scope. I had no trouble out shooting model 70s ( un altered) with out the scope and got under 1" moa with the 6X Weaver and 50 Gr H4831 and Sierra 180 .311 bullets. Which I eventually loaded to an overall length that kept the bullet just short of the rifling. I also use IMR 4320 for a faster load in the 1909s using the Sierra accuracy load. I had to learn how to reload right away because at that time it was near impossible to find loaded ammo. So I wrote to Norma and they sent me fantastic reloading books no charge. IMO Argentine rifles are the nicest Mausers made. Perhaps the Persian models are great too but I have not seen one first hand.