"Sporterised" Lee-Enfields in WWII

[Colonel Enfield]

I was doing some research on the Australian War Memorial site and came across this photo, taken in Papua New Guinea in 1944 and showing "A staff sergeant of the 43rd Field Ordnance Depot showing two very badly damaged .303 Lee-Enfield rifles which have been returned to store" :

https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/076283

Interestingly, the rifle on the left looks like it might have been cut down for jungle fighting? I know this sort of thing was officially a huge no-no, but I've heard persistent rumours it happened anyway.

Thought it might be interesting discussion material, either way...

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[Bruce_in_Oz]

Could have also been a "local's"/ plantation owner's hunting rifle that was recovered after being in the hands of the Japanese or "doubtful" locals.

I doubt that any digger would take a saw to the fore-end of his rifle.

Firstly, because the ire of the unit armourers would have paled into insignificance before the fury of the RSM.

Secondly, these "sporter" jobs are often less accurate after surgery, with Mk7 ball, because all of the carefully built-in bedding has been tossed aside.

[Bindi2]

Looks like a Roo shooters rifle. The other one would appear to be missing its clothes.

[henry r]

the one on the right looks like it has been through a big fire (vehicle or building?)

[browningautorifle]

Interestingly, the rifle on the left looks like it might have been cut down for jungle fighting? I know this sort of thing was officially a huge no-no, but I've heard persistent rumours it happened anyway.

Because people that have zero military experience want these romantic notions to be true. And the internet makes it worse. If a soldier had cut down his rifle or customized it in ANY way, as a Snr NCO I'd have danced him directly to the jail house. Do not pass go. I'd have done it on my own authority...

We had a young man once that wanted to stand out on parade so he went to buy a small screwdriver set. He sat in his room in the quarters and stripped his FN C1 A1 to pennybits and removed every spot of parkerizing visible. Upon return to stores he was immediately charged for destruction of goods.

Now let's come down off the clouds and forget this happy hogsh*t. As the others pointed out, one plantation rifle and one looks like a destroyed rifle. RQ's problem now...

[Colonel Enfield]

Because people that have zero military experience want these romantic notions to be true. And the internet makes it worse. If a soldier had cut down his rifle or customized it in ANY way, as a Snr NCO I'd have danced him directly to the jail house. Do not pass go. I'd have done it on my own authority.

That's why I wanted to ask - because I know messing with Government Property tends to be frowned upon (to put it mildly) but I know they made a small number of "Official" experimental Jungle Carbines on the SMLE action so it struck me as likely that it wasn't outside the realms of possibility someone had taken an already damaged rifle and turned it into a sporter for use in jungle combat before that.

[enfield303t]

Because people that have zero military experience want these romantic notions to be true. And the internet makes it worse. If a soldier had cut down his rifle or customized it in ANY way, as a Snr NCO I'd have danced him directly to the jail house. Do not pass go. I'd have done it on my own authority...

We had a young man once that wanted to stand out on parade so he went to buy a small screwdriver set. He sat in his room in the quarters and stripped his FN C1 A1 to pennybits and removed every spot of parkerizing visible. Upon return to stores he was immediately charged for destruction of goods.

Now let's come down off the clouds and forget this happy hogsh*t. As the others pointed out, one plantation rifle and one looks like a destroyed rifle. RQ's problem now...

Good post Jim.

Sandy Scott the sniper Cass and I did the story on told us he modified the butt stock hand grip on his BSA T so it fit him better. When he turned it in they told him he had to pay for it, he told them to "pound sand" as he was being discharged. Sandy was one tough guy and I can just imagine the conversation that occurred.

One dare not modify anything without facing the wrath of a superior officer.

[browningautorifle]

shows a cut back No. 4 during the battle for Mandalay in Burma.

I'll bet there's way more to that story than that.

One dare not modify anything without facing the wrath of a superior officer.

There are simpler stories that are far less venomous too, during WW1(I know that ain't what we're discussin')...men that hated the Ross discarded it and picked up a #1Mk3 when they could. Upon return to lines, they were charged and after summary trial were fined the cost of the Ross for "The loss of a rifle"... No story washed, "But sir, it was blown to bits and I picked this one up". So doing what a rifleman wanted wouldn't fly either... That's just one example that comes to mind.

As for Sandy and his "Discussion" with the release clerk, a man always has some money coming to him at outclearance. I'll bet they just raped his paybook and left it at that. The rifle cost what? $35CDN for a #4 Mk2T back when I saw the microfich? A basic rifle would be less...

[Sentryduty]

Broken stock and a bent barrel, that is essentially what a soldier (or anyone) would have done to disable a captured/discovered weapon in the field without tools.

Its been awhile since I read the manuals but these actions and others were described for dealing with unwanted weapons or to prevent their capture and use. Also included plugging the barrel with mud and firing a round remotely with a string, removing bolts and critical bits to discard in water, swamps, bogs where-ever, and so on.

While the weapon may have been turned into stores, there is little way of knowing where it actually came from.

[green]

One on the left appears to have been run over by a heavy vehicle or hit by shell fragment IMHO. Notice how the shortening of the stock correspomds with the bend in the barrel.