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Much of the hostility from fellow troops during both world wars was entirely understandable, as Cinders says; if you had an active sniper working from a loop hole in the next fire bay to you you just were asking for a retaliatory stonk from the Germans. Of course, it wasn't just snipers who were unpopular for this sort of reason - the Stokes mortar men were too; coming up, blatting off a few rounds & then buggering off before the incoming arrived.
Sorry, have wandered off topic a bit.......
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04-23-2017 07:04 AM
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But back to target rifles made from No4T snipers. Does anyone remember the same era or slightly later when perfectly nice old VW Beetles, with bags of that undefinable trait called character were chopped into something totally characterless called beach buggies. Remind you of anything? Helmet on and awaiting more incoming......
As for snipers and their macabre assassination traits we should remember that the well regulated sniper teams are generally one-hit-men where they'll stalk, sit, wait and then pounce. That way the odd shot can't readily be identified as coming from a sniper as such. It could be a stray lucky shot from anywhere. Then they go to ground, move on, do what they do and...... same again later
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Originally Posted by
CINDERS
The Musgrave is not a bad rig there Bigduke do you have some pics.
I would have thought if you are making a target rifle up he could have filled the front pad holes in and finished it off, a curio yes for some but in my eyes a crying shame to castrate a perfectly accurate system.
Snipers have always or so it seems in WWII been the bain of the infantry as all they seem to do is bring artillery/motar fire on them after they have shot a high value target.
One story from my readings;
Cannot remember the book but a japanese MG pillbox was holding up an advance on the beach it was about 700 yds to the box but the marines could not get up so they called for snipers.
Two marines came forward with their wide brimmed hats and settled down at that long range one shooter one spotter "the smokies they called them" the MG was hammering away so the shooting smokey using an Unertl scoped '03 30/06 put lead down range 1st shot too high 2nd close to the port 3rd through the port killed the gunner from then on every time a jap manned the gun he was shot by the sniper team. The marines advanced and took out the post.
That's why a sniper team is a force multiplier.
Cinders,
The Musgrave was a dealer special, as the dealer couldn't sell it in its condition it come to me for £25 IIRC, it was the days when I was trying to teach folk that its not the rifle but themselves and how cheap it can be to get that perfect score.......... all fell on deaf ears so went back to what I love best Misurps..... it just stayed in the back of the cabinet with all the other £25 specials until recently. I got a barrel of a £10 pound rifle.....
Problem is, you end up with a lot bodies, barrels etc, even the *auction house today wouldn't take a box of six receivers, and other bits one was a Whitaker No4 which come with a job lot of other stuff, shame to cut it up, so I will fit a bolt, trigger mech and barrel and Give it to Mick if he wants it ?......
* I could understand the point of view from the auction house, as he showed me racks and racks of old target rifles........
Last edited by bigduke6; 04-23-2017 at 12:58 PM.
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Contributing Member
What about turning them into a club gun for aspiring new shooters or a cheap entry level gun I understand the auction house if thats what they have got but today most new shooters we find look at the gear old f*rts like me are using then ask the price of setting up say a full bore rifle from scratch then turn pale when you start adding up the costs.
I think 3 years ago I had 2 x Barnard actioned rifles built up for my wife one FB and an F-class the full bore from scratch including her gaining my custom T-Mac sight was an all up cost of just under the $5 K mark so having a rifle that whilst may not look special but groups well instills confidence in a new shooter and a viable option at a cheaper price.
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Legacy Member
If folks were still shooting ball ammo (like the 7.62 Hintenberger currently on the market), for long range, then the old tight bore Enfield based target rifles would be a wise choice.
They are also great fun. I do not know exactly why, but the old 1960s/70s military action based target rifles have a certain draw that the more modern arms just do not.
The only issue is, once they get reasonably skilled after a season, the old rifles just cannot compete on any level with the modern wonder-rifles. Heck the pillar-bedded wood stocked PALMA rifles with 1-13 twist and 95 PALMA throat from just a decade ago are not longer competitive.
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Originally Posted by
Frederick303
The only issue is, once they get reasonably skilled after a season, the old rifles just cannot compete on any level with the modern wonder-rifles. Heck the pillar-bedded wood stocked PALMA rifles with 1-13 twist and 95 PALMA throat from just a decade ago are not longer competitive.
I started on an Omark with a new barrel in it, upgraded to a RPA2000 and a brand new lawton barrel and my scores didnt change - thats when i learned i had astygmatism in my right eye and i will never be any good at it =(
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Bushy from Oz.
I had a similar problem in the early 2000s, had achieved much of what I wanted to do, but could not get the final bit I needed, the P100 badge due to astig which caused all sorts of problems over 300 M.
So I went and got Lasik surgery, went from something over - 2.3 spherical, -1.75 astig to +0.50 spherical, +0.25 astig. Made the P100 that very year # 48. 11 years later the vision is still holding at +0.5, +0.50, though old age has made my reading vision **** (currently only have ~2.1 diopters of natural adjustment), but at least I do not need bifocals and simple 1.25 reading glasses work just fine.
No need to give up, just fix the vision.
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Started the same BFO Omark but the Black Mountain tube was shot out ended up with a B-44 barrel on it turned my Neilson 300 into a back up .308 effie.
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Originally Posted by
Frederick303
No need to give up, just fix the vision.
At 33 im not really a candidate for Lasik as it has no impact on any other part of life. The optometrist was interesting, bascially said we would never have pcked it up if it wasnt for the concentric circles in the sights, i could have gone though life and never known. Also, since i had kids, i dont get to the range enough to be any good at it anyway. Might have to go to the dark side (F-Class)
Originally Posted by
CINDERS
Started the same BFO Omark but the Black Mountain tube was shot out ended up with a B-44 barrel on it turned my Neilson 300 into a back up .308 effie.
My old Omark is knackered now, but i have a near new BM barrel i should get put in it, and a Davies trigger - i cant stand the single stage and my RPA has a davies trigger in it, would get another one of those in a heartbeat!
Its a waste of a rifle at the moment and it had a nice new wallnut stock fitted on it as well
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Originally Posted by
bigduke6
I picked up a similar one a few years back but made by Geoff Hart, built on a No4T body................ its a good example of what not to do, to a Sniper rifle.
Here's mine Geoff, I was given this Hart by a local RFD. It was handed in by someone giving up shooting and after a year of absolutely no interest it was about to be "reduced to produce", my RFD said, take it away...
It just held no interest for me, so after a year as a safe queen it was traded in for my 1917 ANZAC issue SMLE.
Very nice rifle, but shame a T was destroyed to make it. I have a feeling the T action bodies and bolts used in these conversions had their origins in the enormous joint Interarms / Parker Hale Enfield surp deal of the late 1950's.
I hear that quite a few worn rifles were reduced to parts straight away and I should think the T action bodies and bolts were set aside for possible sale as potential sporting / Target rifle builds.
Last edited by mrclark303; 04-24-2017 at 06:33 AM.
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