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Identifying a fake
Last fall. I bought my 1st all matching K98 off a seller on gunnutz. He bought the rifle from badger and the rifle is well vetted and authentic. So I am confident that I now own a 1944 DOT K98K. I believe there are pics of the rifle in a gallery on this forum but I cannot find them.
But gun show season is very soon.
I would like to buy another K98 as I have seen numbers of them at the local shows over the years. I have educated myself as best I can but without having an expert with me, how can I feel as safe as I did with my last purchase?
I held a very nice byf last January, but for the money the seller wanted I absolutely needed to know if it was authentic. He could not guarantee that it was so I passed.
Are there lots of fakes on tables at gun shows?
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12-26-2017 03:55 PM
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Easiest answer is to buy where you feel the safest. I would see if Badger has another one for sale!
'Tonight my men and I have been through hell and back again, but the look on your faces when we let you out of the hall - we'd do it all again tomorrow.' Major Chris Keeble's words to Goose Green villagers on 29th May 1982 - 2 PARA
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It really depends on the show. There might be zero all matching K98k at a gun show, there might be several. There could be fakes, there could be none. Its hard to say. The problem with gunshows in that regard is you need the knowledge to make a informed decision there and then.
Personally I wouldn't buy one at a gunshow, I might get the information of the seller, and ask if I can take some detailed photos and get it authenticated (especially for the amount of money involved and considering how often they are faked or misrepresented). Remember not all fakes are intentional fakes. Sometimes people are just unsure what they have. Just as a example it could be all matching but a post war rebuild. Unless you have the knowledge to realize that, you are risking a lot of money.
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Originally Posted by
ricohman
Are there lots of fakes on tables at gun shows?
It's not so much that they're a fake as a put together. Most of them are just put back to military after being cut down for hunting and now that they're worth a fortune they seem to grow new parts. They're assembled...in recent time. Lots of them.
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If you look, it will not take you long to find sites offering reproduction stamps for Waa etc. Just ask yourself: what is the intended use of a stamp? Yes, the answer is - to stamp parts. In other words, to makes fakes.
The most common form is to stamp-up replacement parts to make a desirable "all-matching" piece. Very simply: where there is a demand, supply will occur.
Specific - preferably hands-on - knowledge of the type of gun you are looking for is an absolute must.
But even without specific expertise, the most common give-away for falsified pieces is INCONSISTENT WEAR AND SCRATCH PATTERNS.
Handle as many old guns as you can. Look at them and how the components have worn together. With time you will develop a feeling for things that just don't jibe.
LOOK AT THE PARTS - NOT THE NUMBERS.
It is often said on these forums: buy the gun, not the story. All too often, faked numbers are telling a false story.
And armorers in wartime were there to keep weapons functional, not to play matching games for collectors 75 years later! So they used what worked. A number lined out, with a new number stamped below, is typical for an armorer replacement. Erased numbers which have been overstamped are likely to have been faked.
If all the parts look and feel as if they have aged and worn together, then be happy if the numbers match as well.
If the parts do not have that "family" look and feel, then all the freshly stamped Waas in the world won't make the gun more genuine.
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Thanks for the replies.
I have now decided I will just browse. Maybe buy an honest RC if I see one.
These rifles are getting expensive and it's a buyer beware market. And I am far from an expert.
Seeing those pictures of fake stamps is disheartening. I had no idea these were even available. And I guess they are used for the purpose of making money.
I will stick to buying from reputable sellers as mentioned above.
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Do not despair! It took me several years and enough dodgy specimens to equip a batalion before I found a 100% un-Bubba-ed, un-"restored", un-"improved" Martini-Hanry.
You can learn a lot from your vetted example. Just study how metal parts have bedded down into the wood, how wear marks and scratches carry over from wood to metal, how and where finish has faded and worn. Handle other verified examples, regardless of the type of rifle. Soon you will start to spot the discrepancies between parts in mix-masters and Bubba-ed examples.
Last edited by Patrick Chadwick; 12-30-2017 at 04:48 PM.
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You must realize WWI sniper GEW98's were unknown after the war. The German snipers were under strict orders to destroy the rifle if they might be captured. But, I have seen 2-3 WWI sniper Mausers at the big gunshows. Odd, more around today 100 years later then were around in 1919. I have heard that 2 German Lugers have been sold in Los Angeles that have Adolf Hitler provenance. Odd, as Hitler was scared of guns. Fakes are everywhere and you must know what you are doing or you will be sorry.
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To me a Fun show is the worst place to drop big money on a gun. Too much excitement, too much pressure standing at the table. It wasn't big money but money I worked for non the less. I bought a 03A3 with a cracked stock, bent front sight, bent rear sight protectors because I was google eyed. Didn't even notice until I got home!!
A more private setting with time to truly evaluate the piece is how I'd prefer to purchase an investment piece.
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Or at least a chance to get your money back or some form of guarantee, when you find them!!
'Tonight my men and I have been through hell and back again, but the look on your faces when we let you out of the hall - we'd do it all again tomorrow.' Major Chris Keeble's words to Goose Green villagers on 29th May 1982 - 2 PARA
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