Winchester Model 1917 with very early unique serial number

[breakeyp]

Attachment 91243When production was shifted from Pattern 1914 to US Model 1917, Winchester was ahead of Remington and Eddystone in converting their production line and actually began production ahead of government acceptance. With no direction as to serial numbers, Winchester followed what they had done for the British and prefaced their serial number with a W. Of course initiative was punished and the serial method was changed. This gun is one of the last produced before the change.

Attachment 91163Attachment 91164


I later found this rifle, W3521, in the pile.

Information

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[RC20]

I would not say punished as much as they just had to change to the appearance deemed right per the US Army.

Granted it was pretty silly, but the 1903 has a pattern they liked.

Winchester also jumped the gun on parts conformity and got smacked a bit.

That is more problematical to me. They needed arms in the hand of troops and I think they should have done a mark (star or astricks) to indicate not compliant and then worked to compliance.

Despite some of the reports that not all parts ever did fully interchange, having had mix masters, they all worked fine.

[fjruple]

Thanks for the picture! Winchester got hit pretty hard on these rifles. Even to the point that General Pershing would not permit any Winchester M1917 into the AEF in Europe due the Compatibility issue since the early guns were not built to US Ordnance specification. The goal of compatiably was supposed to be achieved by January 1, 1918. The one part they could not get compatibility on was the fitting of a new firing pin due to the design of the rifle. Winchester even complained to the US Ordnance Department about the Winchester M1917 still getting a bad rep after the problem was fixed.

[Promo]

I own Winchester M1917 with serial #1xxx, it of course also has this style of marking. Yours is "quite high", compared to this. Do you know approx. when they switched to the final marking?

[Melanie_Daniels]

The only book I found to this serial numbers said: After 3000 rifles.

[breakeyp]

I never tracked when the W change happened, my friend of many years wrote done the number of every rifle we encountered. He has since passed on and the information lost with him.

[fjruple]

I never tracked when the W change happened, my friend of many years wrote done the number of every rifle we encountered. He has since passed on and the information lost with him.

From what I can find out there appears to a definite record of the serial numbers being stamped with the U.S.and W. probably up serial# 4663. In the serial number there are notes that between July 12 1917 and August 23, 1917 no new serial were recorded. However there are note to the effect "12 bodies numbered 4025 to 4036 July 20, 1917" and 15 Bodies numbered 4050 to 4065 Aug 9 1917." The notes indicates that these bodies were for experimental purposes. A rifle with 4064 appears to be an experiment with the change from the US and W to the full Winchester name as an experiment. It was another two weeks before serial numbering started back up again probably to make the new roll marking die. The serial numbering start again at 4664 on August 24, 1917 with a note. "No.17. old fashion - Last No. - from 4623 to 4663, inclusive." So, 4663 is probably the last serial number of the U.S. over the W with a number of at least one below probably more as experimentally marked WINCHESTER. But there are always one or two that goes against the grain. The information was taken from C.S. Ferris book.

[Promo]

The only book I found to this serial numbers said: After 3000 rifles.

Obviously wrong if his rifle has a serial above 4000.

[Melanie_Daniels]

Obviously wrong if his rifle has a serial above 4000.

That`s the reason the rifle is so interesting for me.

[fjruple]

General John T. Thompson who came back on active duty after working as a civilian at the Eddystone plant mandated the change to Model of M1917 and the full name of the manufacturer in a letter. I will see if I can find the letter with its date.

--fjruple