John Rigby & Sons No. 1 Mk.III Sniper

[Promo]

Bruce, I once found this picture posted on the internet by the son of Robert Etherington of his fathers collection. It shows an Ainley sniper rifle on the very left side. I had wondered you might know if this rifle still is in Australia or not? I never saw it for sale either.

[Bruce_in_Oz]

Today's question:

Does / did the Pattern Room have one?

If so, what was its number?

[Roger Payne]

Bruce; yes, they did (& hopefully still do), serial number 4, one of the two made by BSA.

[Promo]

Today's question:

Does / did the Pattern Room have one?

If so, what was its number?

According to their website they do have it, and Roger seems to be correct in that they own serial #4: Experimental Ainley Pattern (about 1939)

[Simon]

I could be mistaken but didn't they have one at Warminster too? Perhaps Peter could confirm?

[Promo]

Boy, I'm a bit stupid ... why didn't I check the drawings for the inside dimensions of the scope?

Clearly, the front scope ring is shown with inside diameter of 0.982" while the rear scope ring having a radius of 0.491" (so also exactly a diameter of 0.982").

Having re-checked my rifle a few times and trying to fit a 25mm scope which is clearly not held in place I can confirm my rifle would need a 1" scope tube. This therefore leaves two possiblities:
a) the rifle was manufactured for a Fuess/PPCo type scope with 1" tube
b) it was modified at a later point of time to accept 1" tubes

I don't think that possibility b would apply, because it would also mean there need to be additional milling marks visible at the rear scope ring, what clearly isn't the case. Additionally the left rear sight protector is milled off, so definitely a scope with capstans for lateral adjustment. Anyone had seen a scope which would fit this description?

PS: an interesting detail, the original drawing dates to 01.12.1914. Per the book of Skennerton Rigby received a contract to supply and fit telescopic sights on 13.01.1915 for a total of 21 rifles (less than a month later). It is now my personal assumption they ordered 21 to keep one for the Pattern Room, what do you think?
Skennerton also lists an additional contract for Rigby dating 02.03.1915 for 100 rifles. So there could originally had been up to 121 of these rifles being made.

Edit: Rob, same dimension both at front and rear of front scope ring, sorry it took so long to let you know!

[Surpmil]

I could be mistaken but didn't they have one at Warminster too? Perhaps Peter could confirm?

There is one there as by Peter's kindness ValleySniper and I were able to examine it a few years back. It does not have the scope fitted and I'm sure it would have been if it was there.

The scope and mount for the rifle in Australia turned up on eBay in the UK more than ten years ago. I believe we discussed that here previously.

In fact I am sure we did as the mounts have since been refinished, though the posts and photos concerning that seem to have disappeared.

[Roger Payne]

Boy, I'm a bit stupid ... why didn't I check the drawings for the inside dimensions of the scope?

Clearly, the front scope ring is shown with inside diameter of 0.982" while the rear scope ring having a radius of 0.491" (so also exactly a diameter of 0.982").

Having re-checked my rifle a few times and trying to fit a 25mm scope which is clearly not held in place I can confirm my rifle would need a 1" scope tube. This therefore leaves two possiblities:
a) the rifle was manufactured for a Fuess/PPCo type scope with 1" tube
b) it was modified at a later point of time to accept 1" tubes

I don't think that possibility b would apply, because it would also mean there need to be additionalmilling marks visible at the rear scope ring, what clearly isn't the case. Additionally the left rear sight protector is milled off, so definitely a scope with capstans for lateral adjustment. Anyone had seen a scope which would fit this description?
I
PS: an interesting detail, the original drawing dates to 01.12.1914. Per the book of Skennerton Rigby received a contract to supply and fit telescopic sights on 13.01.1915 for a total of 21 rifles (less than a month later). It is now my personal assumption they ordered 21 to keep one for the Pattern Room, what do you think?
Skennerton also lists an additional contract for Rigby dating 02.03.1915 for 100 rifles. So there could originally had been up to 121 of these rifles being made.

Edit: Rob, same dimension both at front and rear of front scope ring, sorry it took so long to let you know!

Hi Georg,
The Pattern Room was the accepted repository for sealed patterns, so it’s possible your 20 + 1 might be right.

Also, & I may be wrong in making this assumption, but there were at least two different types of mounts utilised by Rigby on WW1 sniping arms & I would imagine the total is probably made up of both types. However, that just makes your rifle the only known surviving example of a total of even less than we’d thought! 😜

[Promo]

Roger: well, if my rifle is a single survivor of 121 ever made or single survivor of 21 ever made ... doesn't make much of a difference, right? I am pretty sure, simply based on the dates, that my rifle originally had been among the 21 being made.

The question is (and supported by the fact that even Skennerton speaks of a different scope model for the second contract) what then was the second variation being made? I remember you sending me the picture of your recent aquisition complete with scope case being a Rigby marked scope - wasn't this one a Watts telescope, and didn't Ian write of the Watts telescope? In your mail you also mentioned an Aldis scope, so you have a second one with exactly the same mount?

Rob, I think I even found the pic I was looking for, showing the Ainley rifle in Australia reunited with the scope (note scope case marked X8). Does anyone know where this rifle is now?

[Roger Payne]

Yes, I have both a Watts & an Aldis in the same mounts. Both scopes are engraved up with the Rigby name. The Aldis has belonged to me for many years although the Rigby only came to me in a swap deal earlier this year. The mounts on them look to be of the type on the two Magazine Lee Enfields in the NFC (ex-Pattern Room Collection) at the Armouries in Leeds. As mentioned in our emails I'm hoping to get up there to have a closer look at them shortly. I've seen them before but that was some years ago.