To get back on the original topic... My first carbine I owned in 1982 was an unmolested, early featured Winchester with flip sights. It easily bounced a pop can with every shot at 100 yards. That was the best shooting carbine I ever owned. My 1943 Correct inland I got back in about 2012/2013 was a solid 2.5 to 3 MOA shooter from the bench. Of the dozen or so I have had, 4 MOA would be average. My 68 year old eyes are a limiting factor, though. I used to enjoy shooting empty 12 gauge hulls off the cross bar of the 25 yard target frame with my carbines!