When it really happens: SHTF...

[Surpmil]

Indeed, and more than that: those who have had liberty can have it trained out of them until their descendants forget what it was.

There is a fundamental incompatibility between Islam and liberty which can never be resolved; one of them must disappear.

If present trends continue, we know which it will be.

[ssgross]

which can never be resolved

I wouldn't go that far...Plenty of historical examples of "eventual" resolution - Holy Roman Empire's domination of Europe, crusades, Henry VIII's protestant reformation and subsequent persecution of catholics, Hindu caste system in more modern times has clearly improved in the direction of liberty. Arguably the religion is the same as it always was...the underlying books and beliefs haven't changed - even the doctrine. The way we "project" onto others has changed and allowed "resolution". What has evolved, or perhaps "resolved" is that we stop caring so much that everyone else believes differently, and they stop caring how you believe. This is the real miracle of religious freedom in the US experiment.
The only "incompatibility" with liberty is the idea that everyone has to believe/accept the same things - and that is not just confined to religion - it happens politically too.

I'll be the glass half full guy and say that Liberty will always win in the end - it just may take a few more thousand years and many more wars in between.
Hopefully by discussing historical perspectives we aren't breaking the rules of this forum - no religion or politics discussion allowed. Let's not get too deep in this and spoil the tranquil utopia of milsurps!

[Ovidio]

Here, we’re being told, day after day, that during the Christmas ane New Year holidays we’ll be kept buttoned up more and more. Every day some government or virologist jackass tells us that we will mot be allowed to do this, that, that other thing...
Jesus can come to th3 world a few hours earlier, that is not going to hurt anybody, you’ll notbe allowed out of your community, curfew from 10 PM...no...from 8 PM. Let’s see...
I must say that the greatest disappointment to me is that I feel alone. Until Covid, lots of people were talking about freedom, democracy, equality...
Now that we’re put in jail against all rules set by our constitution, no one talks...
I’m getting restless...
I have trouble sleeping.
I see cops and I cringe.
That is not right...

[Aragorn243]

"There is a fundamental incompatibility between Islam and liberty which can never be resolved; one of them must disappear"

Not exactly. Iran was once a very enlightened nations, part of the world. Egypt, Syria, Jordan all have had various levels of freedom.

It's when religious zealots gain control that the conflict begins. Granted true Islam is what the zealots want and the type that allowed freedom is an extremely watered down version of it but it can be done. What I don't understand is how all these people so willingly give up that freedom for a very oppressive religion. Turkey is going the wrong way.

But then look at us. Our governor now provided us with a website so we can report our neighbors, our businesses, etc for not following his unconstitutional dictates and people quite happily are willing to do so. They talk out of both sides of their mouths and now lie with impunity and the lies are quite obvious lies.

[ssgross]

I think I need a new career. Collaborating with others on hard problems was always the joy of my working life after the Marines.
Phone calls and virtual meetings with funny backgrounds, sitting in my pj's all day staring at a screen, even with real people on the other side, saps all the joy out of life and work.

I wonder if any of the great smiths on here are taking on any apprentices. You all seem like really nice peoples, much nicer than the average swamp rat around the DC swamp.

My shop is 3 feet away from my home office...and calls to me all day long while I'm stuck with TPS reports.
{Insert office space gif about TPS reports}

---------- Post added at 06:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:52 PM ----------

Our governor now provided us with a website so we can report our neighbors

Aragorn, I used to be a professor in PA. For the 2 years I lived there, I found it the most corrupt of state and local governments I had ever lived under (compared to 5 other states I have experience with). The outrageous commissions handed over to the private contractor that collects taxes, the mismanagement of federal turnpike money over decades causing the 30 cents or so per gallon surcharge on gas, to name a couple of examples from 2015ish when I was there.

[Surpmil]

"There is a fundamental incompatibility between Islam and liberty which can never be resolved; one of them must disappear"

Not exactly. Iran was once a very enlightened nations, part of the world. Egypt, Syria, Jordan all have had various levels of freedom.

It's when religious zealots gain control that the conflict begins. Granted true Islam is what the zealots want and the type that allowed freedom is an extremely watered down version of it but it can be done. What I don't understand is how all these people so willingly give up that freedom for a very oppressive religion. Turkey is going the wrong way.

But then look at us. Our governor now provided us with a website so we can report our neighbors, our businesses, etc for not following his unconstitutional dictates and people quite happily are willing to do so. They talk out of both sides of their mouths and now lie with impunity and the lies are quite obvious lies.

A third of India is controlled by Maoist rebels today; mostly from the have-not castes. Despite the huge birth rate, what future does Hinduism have against the Chinese steamroller with a fifth column of that size?

Iran? We know what brought Pahlavi to power and kept him there as the wellspring of islamic radicalism, don't we?

Fundamentally, most of our so-called leaders in the last 50 odd years are at best fools, and at worst outright criminals and the proportion of the latter increases steadily. Ignorance and poverty of outlook is their commonality. All societies reach a tipping point; we're very close. Funny, but fundamentally it's a moral problem.

Those who missed what Gen. Smedley Butler said about his contacts with power, might have caught what Gen. Wesley Clark said. Then again, maybe not!

The reality is stark, few want to face it. Thereby guaranteeing that we will face it, on the least favourable terms.

Islam has some friends in the west, and you'd be surprised how many and who. The blind leading the blind again. Their children and grandchildren will pay the price.

But let's distract ourselves while we can!

[ssgross]

are at best fools, and at worst outright criminals and the proportion of the latter increases steadily

"...and I believe farther that this [government] is likely to be well administered for a Course of Years, and can only end in Despotism as other Forms have done before it, when the People shall become so corrupted as to need Despotic Government, being incapable of any other." This was part of Franklin's closing remarks to the convention...the famous "I agree to it, Sir, with all its faults" speech.
Madison's journal shows that there was a very central theme of worrying over the inevitable results of power and corruption. The opposing sides of debate agreed on that, and disagreed on best methods to curb it.
Our dear leaders today all seem to agree on a need for more power and corruption, and mostly seem to only disagree on how to go about getting it or perhaps who.
In the words of our likely to be new dear leader..."C'mon,..,Man!" - Glass half full!? There is plenty still to be positive about? even whilst battling isolation, lockdowns, and all the other SHTF stuff?

Thanksgiving was too dark. In our annual round the table what are we most thankful for, I noticed there wasn't any usual love and snuggles to our thoughts. I told my kids I was most thankful I still had a job, when so many others didn't. Even at 8 and 11yrs old they get what is going on better than most. The kids were were most thankful that we were still doing Thanksgiving when so many others are having trouble putting food on the table. In normal years we are most thankful for each other. But things are getting a little to primitive to be comfortable in that alone.

[Aragorn243]

This is what I found when I got on the computer today. This is how the children get to visit Santa in my town and get their photo taken with him. I do have to give them credit for at least trying but this just seems so sad and so ridiculous. I honestly thought they would not have Santa this year other than the parade he had all through town, 15 miles of streets last Friday night.

[Gil Boyd]

Steve,
Thanks for the photo mate screen and all. Shows that there are people out there who want to keep the tradition going. Heaven forbid, if this years young kids didn't get to see Santa, whatever next.........they would grow up deficient in one year.
Nice one!

[ssgross]

mini parade rolled through my neighborhood on Sun. Carolers on one float, Santa on the second...convoy surrounded by fire trucks and cops with lights a flashing. They drove very slow, stopping and singing for those walking down the sidewalk. The street behind my house in the burbs is well trafficked by pedestrians. Then, a person driving the opposite direction slowed down to watch, and got rear ended by a person - likely texting, on their phone, or distracted by some other technology as is usually the case. On the plus side, the convoy stopped until the cops checked out the accident and we got a whole half hour of carolers all to ourselves. My kids waved at Santa for so long from the porch I thought his arm would give out waving back. Way to go town...whoever is responsible for organizing it!