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Originally Posted by
pocketshaver
MOST manufacturers of polymer guns have been using sheet steel stampings to reinforce the plastic grip frame to have DURABILTY. AND almost all of them have had to resort to at minimum, reinforcing critical recoil areas with metal plates and metal pins to keep the guns working.
---------- Post added at 11:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:55 PM ----------
From your post it is clear that you really don’t know a lot about polymer frame pistols.
Originally Posted by
pocketshaver
Where do you get your idea on that a M4 or AUG, or any other 5.56 based gun is better then a SMLE or garand, or ANY battle rifle predating the 5.56?
IM sorry but I have known FAR to many veterans FIRST HAND that admit they would rather have a beretta then anything chambered in 5.56. EVERY first hand veteran I personally know after they get out have a massive disgust of that cartridge and associated weapons. And when we DO buy "the first gun back home" its also always chambered in a genuine battle rifle cartridge.308 family, etc.
I am a Veteran. I carried a M16A1 and a M16A2. I used the M16A2 in combat against the AK47. I will tell you, the 7.62x39 isn’t worth much pass 250 yards.
The modern battlefield is much different from WWII. It’s more fluid. A soldier today has to be able to carry much more ammo. When it comes to a firefight, the first side that runs out of ammo looses.
I love steel and wood, but if someone tells you that a Garand or a M14 is a much better rifle then what the military uses today, they either don’t know what they are talking about or they are just lying to themselves.
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05-09-2020 02:46 PM
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I'll second that. Also an army veteran and not sure where the claim about the veterans is coming from. Most vets I know love the AR platform. If the crap hits the fan, I'm not grabbing my Garand. I will say I had no need for or desire for an M-16 based platform until the day Obama won the election. Bought my first within a few weeks after that and have bought two more since then. Prior to that day, my state not allowing semi-autos for hunting, I had no use for one. When it looks like the 2nd Amendment might have to be put into use, I suddenly had a need.
The 5.56 is extremely accurate in these rifles and has more than enough power for an potential enemy. I used to be the range officer for my unit and ran the range for the entire battalion on occasion. For ease of use, open sights, all types of soldiers, can't be beat.
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So is the issue the 5.56 round or the AR platform? I've never been big on which caliber is better and that placement is more important than caliber. The nice thing about the AR platform is that you can build it in calibers you prefer. Personally, I'm a believer that the more rounds you have, the more opportunity you have to make that very effective shot. If the crap hits the fan, I'm grabbing the AR with as many magazines as I can and the P226. If you run out of rounds, you will lose the firefight. Of course, the wrong end of a Garand or 1911 is an extremely scary place be also!!
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Originally Posted by
GunnyUSMC
I am a Veteran. I carried a M16A1 and a M16A2. I used the M16A2 in combat against the AK47. I will tell you, the 7.62x39 isn’t worth much pass 250 yards.
The modern battlefield is much different from WWII. It’s more fluid. A soldier today has to be able to carry much more ammo. When it comes to a firefight, the first side that runs out of ammo looses.
I love steel and wood, but if someone tells you that a Garand or a
M14 is a much better rifle then what the military uses today, they either don’t know what they are talking about or they are just lying to themselves.
In the 70's and early 80's was a PIG gunner, for the most part, so the only dealt with the M16A1 early in the beginning of my time with the SEABEES and then the two years I did in the Army Corps of Engineers. I did not have a positive experience with the rifle, and it was not from know knowing them, I know them well. I was raised on Port Hueneme and as a kid would disassemble clean and reassemble the A1's whiles my Dad and his buddies shot the **** after coming back from qualifications or training. I never had the opportunity to shoulder the A2 or the M4 (military).
I think the M4 is an excellent weapon for what it is intended to be used for; its light, short, and perfect for close-in spaces. YOu can not beat it for close combat, house to house, and room to room. So if I were still in the Military I would not mind having to carry one. However, if we were out in open areas where distance is a factor, I would have a hard time not trading an M4 or A2 for an M14. BUT, I am no longer in the Military and none of that plays anymore and although I have a stripped AR lower that I wanted to build a RETO A1, I never have really cared to own one; which is more then likely why this lower has been sitting in my Safe for 4 or more years, I should just give it to my kids. I find the utility of a rifle like a Mini 14 in .223 or even a SKS more appealing as far as Semi-Autos go.
Me and My Dad, around 1971
Attachment 107871
Last edited by usabaker; 05-09-2020 at 03:58 PM.
Veteran US Navy Seabees - US Army Corps of Engineers - American Legion Post 0867
" Only two defining forces have offered to die for me. 1.) Jesus Christ 2.) The American G.I. "One died for your soul, the other for your freedom! "
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Uncle Sam paid me to carry one. I hated it. The only kids that liked the M16 or M4, were the ones who had grown up playing those damn call of duty video games or grew up as big fans of Rambo and other cheap *** action movies. Everyone who actually knew what they were doing, hated the rifle and the cartridge.
Its like we always joked, if if the damn M4 or m16 or 5.56 was such a damn good cartridge, why did our sergeants tell us DO NOT engage targets past 100 yards unless you had a machinegun or a mortar, or could call to one for help?
If the cartridge was so good, and the platform was so good, they would not have reactivated M1a in good ol 7.62x51 for long range assistance. A
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Originally Posted by
pocketshaver
Uncle Sam paid me to carry one. I hated it. The only kids that liked the
M16 or M4, were the ones who had grown up playing those damn call of duty video games or grew up as big fans of Rambo and other cheap *** action movies. Everyone who actually knew what they were doing, hated the rifle and the cartridge.
Its like we always joked, if if the damn M4 or m16 or 5.56 was such a damn good cartridge, why did our sergeants tell us DO NOT engage targets past 100 yards unless you had a machinegun or a mortar, or could call to one for help?
If the cartridge was so good, and the platform was so good, they would not have reactivated M1a in good ol 7.62x51 for long range assistance. A
Let me guess, you were in the Army.
I guess your Sgt. Didn’t know that the max effective range of the M16 was 600 meters.
When I was in, the Marine KD course was 200, 300 and 500 meters. I have nine Expert awards with the M16A1 and A2.
But aren’t we getting off topic? We were talking about those cheap plastic frame gun that have some how replaced just about ever steel and aluminum frame handgun used by LEOs across the country. They are even becoming the standard sidearm for the military.
For the last 18 years I have carried a Glock for a duty weapon. I really like polymer frame, striker fire pistols. But I really love my 1911.
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glock gives major discounts to LEO customers. HELL, the GLOCK discount program will give ANYONE who can prove they MERELY work in a courthouse a glock for 30-40% off
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I wouldn't carry a glock for work if they paid me. Great for the nightstand and leave it there. After a friend of mine was shot during a traffic stop when his glock failed, we learned that glocks at that time had a significant flaw - if you draw the slide back slightly (as sometimes happens when you holster your sidearm), it would de-cock the internal firing pin. When removed from holster, the slide would go forward but not far enough to re-cock the weapon. Glock settled out with him for 6 figures and made him sign a non-disclosure agreement. Later as a commander, some of my younger deputies asked why I carried one of "those old sigs." I explained the above story, and as some of you may be doing now, they scoffed at it. They went to the range that day and the next day they were in office asking about my "old sig." Turns out they actually tested their glocks and were able to recreate the failure with all of them. There is a reason a baseline P226 is $1,000 and a baseline glock is $400 and they will give you 30+% off. Thank you to those of you who served in the military. We all owe you a great debt!
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Advisory Panel
Originally Posted by
Singer B
a baseline P226
Well, I have a baseline 226 in 9mm also... Here's the gunpile, I think everyone knows everyone...?
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Well, I have a baseline 226 in 9mm also... Here's the gunpile, I think everyone knows everyone...?
Nice grouping!
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