WW1 'Periscope Prism company' sniper scope???

[Surpmil]

There you are: "RTFRM" (Reference Material!) It's not like I don't have a well-thumbed copy.

So what we have here is a very early PPCo. that someone has added an objective to later? We do see hand-engraved range markings on the earlier scopes generally IIRC, so that would fit here, despite the nicely pantographed but superfluous "Hundreds of Yards". A helpful hint for novices? (H-P again: "Where did you get that rifle? It was issued to me as Trench Stores sir!")

When did they stop sending the rifles to Bisley to be shot in before the range markings were engraved?

Agree re: order dates too; often who knows how much later than actual deliveries. A result of Whitehall/Horse Guards bureaucratic methods?

If the objective was an original type we might have expected an example to be in that well known inventory you refer to I expect.

[Roger Payne]

Crikey..........I never thought to look in TBS! I need a good smacking........although I am delighted to know that they represent an early variant. I suspected it to be the case, but wasn't sure.....& the answer was there in the book all along! Well done lmg15!! I am sure the fat objective housing is a later addition. A mutual friend of surpmil & I in South Wales also has an example & I'm pretty sure (although it is a long time since I saw it) that the front end is of the conventional design. I've seen photo's of one or two more over th eyears & IIRC they were 'conventional. I forgot to measure it having intended to, but I think the capstans may also be a little further back on the scope on this variant than on the 'run of the mill' PPCo scopes.

Yes, keeping the paperwork correct, even if a little late in the day.........the acceptance of the No4 Mk1* in 1946, admittedly World War later, when it had been in production since the beginning of 1942, springs to mind......

I'll try & get a couple of photo's of the intriguing graduated for Mk6 ammo range drums today........

[lmg15]

Yes Roger and Surpmil, I am as guilty as anyone. In another RTFM moment, I had a look at what are probably the driest and accordingly least read pages in TBS and answered a couple more of my own questions.

In the mid-1915 War Office specification for the supply of sniper rifles, it comes to pass that like the rifles, the scopes are also supplied to the trade as WO supplied equipment, with the gunmakers doing the mounting work being liable for any damage to the scopes and rifles, as well as providing their mounting systems to the full satisfaction of the Inspectorate.

Why PPCo would provide the bare scopes to the WO under separate contract, then take delivery back with the rifles for fitting up the mounts seems a trifle inefficient, but would be sorted by having a Govt inspector at the PPCo factory to accept them such that they remained WO furnished supplies on-site until used, maybe in a WO regulated store-room etc.

However, for all of the other makers, it would appear that that the Aldis scopes were procured by separate contract by the WO, then distributed with the rifles to the various makers. If this is so, then what will we expect in terms of groups of scope serial numbers being aligned with particular mount types. The spreadsheet definitely shows groups of scopes with the same mount types, but there are some anomalies as well, such as Aldis PPCo SMLE overbore claw mount scopes being close together, but from much earlier in the 1916 scope production run that you would expect for scoped fitted up in the 1917 - 1919 period.

So what may be very interesting is finding any reference to the direct contracts between WO and Aldis / PPCo for the supply of scopes, rather than the contracts between the WO and gunmakers for the scope mounting.

ATB,

D.

[Roger Payne]

I think you're right about the scopes (generally anyway) being supplied by the government to the contractors to be fitted, using their (contractors) mounting system. It would be consistent with more than one type of scope being fitted with the same rings. For example, it is generally accepted that the Aldis scope is most commonly associated with the characteristic mounts produced by Purdey & H&H. And, generally, that is the case, yet from time to time other scopes turn up in Purdey or H&H mounts. I have a Fuess type with capstans (note I have modified my terminology!) that bears classical Purdey mounts, & I have a friend who has one bearing classical H&H mounts. If scopes were 'handed out' (for the want of a better way of putting it) to contractors, the contractors would fit whatever came through the front door. I know of a Kahles scope in Purdey mounts, an Aldis in Rigby mounts, & other odd combinations, which are perhaps not so odd, given the presumed method of issue of telescopes to be mated to rifles by the trade.

By the way, the wire cutters are just there to stop the scopes from rolling over......

[Gripster]

Hi all,

I have just received the PPC scope i purchased & have a couple of questions.

The optics are quite clear but i noticed the front lense was loose, so on removing the front i found that there appears to be two countersunk screws missing which i assume holds the front lense internal retaining collar in place. Also, after looking at the photo's posted by Rodger Payne it appears that the screw securing the focus adjustment is incorrect and should be the same as the capstan screws used for windage adjustment.

Can anyone please help me out with replacement screws or the sizes required. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Regards Shane

[Roger Payne]

They will most probably be 8 BA although I am not absolutely sure about that. I'll check on a scope. If so, they are readily available still over here as they are popular with model engineers, & are also the most prevalent screw thread on the No32.

[Roger Payne]

Kind fellow forummer Valley Sniper just happened to have a PPCo in bits to hand & has confirmed that the focus screw is 5 BA, the capstan screws are 4 BA, & the objective housing screws are indeed 8 BA. These are all readily available from model engineering suppliers, as are the taps & dies. If you have any problems in sourcing them Gripster then let me know...

Valley Sniper was also the person to whom I was referring when I mentioned that a friend had a better example of the early 'wrap around' range drum saddle variant, & he has sent me some photo's of his example, which I will upload shortly......all being well!

Addendum - here they are. The OG lens is mounted differently to the later PPCo's - it sits in a concentric housing similar to binocular OG's).

[GeeRam]

Kind fellow forummer Valley Sniper just happened to have a PPCo in bits to hand & has confirmed that the focus screw is 5 BA, the capstan screws are 4 BA, & the objective housing screws are indeed 8 BA. These are all readily available from model engineering suppliers, as are the taps & dies. If you have any problems in sourcing them Gripster then let me know...

Valley Sniper was also the person to whom I was referring when I mentioned that a friend had a better example of the early 'wrap around' range drum saddle variant, & he has sent me some photo's of his example, which I will upload shortly......all being well!

I tried PM'ing him the other day about my vintage P.Kohler Berlin scope as he seems to be the only person with any knowledge of these things but his inbox was full

[Roger Payne]

If you try again I suspect you'll have more luck.....

[Promo]

lmg15, I honestly have no clue upon how to properly answer the details you were looking for with the Aldis scopes. If pictures answer your questions as well, please let me know what you need to see (or even give sample pics) and I'd be happy to provide these pictures.