Finally found my Krag

[ssgross]

You may have to alter your Over-All Cartridge Length. Possibly your projectile is seated-out too far?
The projectile tip may be touching the barrel-breech, before the case-shoulder makes contact and gets directed by the lobe of the side-plate?

I thought so too. The 180 SP's have a cannelure, and I have seated until the cannelure is completely covered up. I usually seat until I just barely still see the top of the cannelure. I didn't crimp, and I think I can go just a tad further in. I'll seat some 150 SPs too and see how that feeds. I also think I'm gonna take you up on the idea of putting the ladder back in the white.
I'll shoot it on Monday - was going to go to Quantico today to get it on paper, but rain in the forecast means yard gets mowed first. Then, I think its about time lots of pictures and a range report! Those 220 RN's are in the mail mon. or tues.

[ssgross]

I think you could get in there with a dremel or a die grinder and just fair up that joint. The metal on the side cover is case hardened and will take some work. Be careful not to cut deep into the receiver, which is a lot softer.

Jon - are you saying the feed angle at the joint needs to be lessened? If I hear you right - removing some material from where the side-plate and receiver mate would make the feed slot closer to parallel with the receiver (of course I don't mean grind it parallel, just grind or file in that direction) should change the point at which the case gets it's first "bump" over to the right? Wouldn't removing material from that area move the round time more towards the lip of the chamber, instead of further to the right? In my rifle, the hangup is the nose of the round hitting the flat to the left of the chamber, not snagging on the joint where the sideplate mates with the receiver.

Another question for the group...was the original ammo jacketed? I found this picture labeled as Winchester 30 US Army from 1895. If authentic, it looks like jacketed with a soft lead nose.
Attachment 110996

[butlersrangers]

So much for trusting memory, I studied the feed of various .30-40 loads in a model 1896 and a model 1898 Krag, today. I studied the interior of a couple of loose side-plates.

The inside of the Krag side-plate has a 'ridge' and it is farther back than I described.
This 'ridge' appears to act on the taper of the cartridge-case body and does not touch the case shoulder.

With the initial movement of the Bolt, the top cartridge rim is just contacted by the bolt-face.

The initial movement moves the cartridge forward and the cartridge tip 'dips' downward. With further movement the bullet tip makes contact with curved surfaces of the side-plate and receiver that form a ramp, directing the bullet nose toward the chamber. It is very important that the seam between the side-plate and receiver be smooth. Round-nose bullets have an advantage riding over the seam.

While the cartridge is moving forward, the ridge on the side-plate and edges of the receiver opening to the magazine continue to act on the cartridge and may influence the angle it takes toward the chamber mouth.

[jon_norstog]

Jon - are you saying the feed angle at the joint needs to be lessened? If I hear you right - removing some material from where the side-plate and receiver mate would make the feed slot closer to parallel with the receiver (of course I don't mean grind it parallel, just grind or file in that direction) ...
Attachment 110996

I was thinking of the case where the bullet nose is snagging on the joint between the side plate and receiver. Not taking out a lot of material, just smoothing that joint. If the round isn't getting pointed into the chamber that is something different - maybe a new used sideplate would do the job. I've never had THAT particular problem.

Good luck!

jn

[butlersrangers]

The U.S. Krag and 1903 Springfield were "Magazine Rifles" designed to be used as 'single-loaders', with the contents of the magazine held in reserve.
Both rifles had a magazine cut-off switch and a bolt 'hold-open device, to assist single-loading.

On command, the magazine contents could be utilized. The 1903 Springfield had the added virtue of rapid reloading of the magazine with 'Chargers', (a.k.a. Stripper-Clips).

Back in the early 1900's, when the Krag was utilized in International Palma Matches, (fired in three stages, of 800, 900, and 1,000 yards), projectiles with superior ballistics were used. These cartridges, with improved projectiles, might not function through the magazine. This was not a problem. Match-Cartridges could be single loaded directly into the chamber during slow-fire.

Hunting and Rapid-Fire Matches require smooth feeding of all five cartridges in the magazine.
Bullet profile and over-all cartridge length play a role in making things run smoothly.

The bullet tips help position the cartridges in the Krag magazine. When the rifle is 'fired', inertia causes forward movement of cartridges in the magazine.
Cartridges near the maximum length, allowed by the magazine, keep things positioned correctly.

I have loaded Krag rounds with 110 grain RN bullets, intended for the M1 Carbine. This makes a fun, but very short, 'plinking' round.
When five of these rounds are put in the magazine, the first couple might feed from the magazine.
With continued firing, the remaining cartridges will move too far forward. A cartridge rim or the case -body will ultimately wedge in the magazine opening and jam the bolt.

The jam can be cleared by retracting the bolt, opening the magazine-gate, and pushing all remaining cartridges to the rear, before re-closing the gate.

It is wise to test a Krag's feed reliability with the ammo that is going to be used for Hunting or Rapid-Fire Matches by filling the magazine and monitoring feed function at range sessions.

[ssgross]

As a hunter I stick with RN anyway

Jon - or anyone else - do you have a favored load for 220RN? I've got a good starting point of the original army load by inferring across the few manuals I have.

[butlersrangers]

A friend, who fires at vintage matches at Camp Perry, uses 220 grain projectiles and 40 grains of IMR-4350. He gets good accuracy and a good correlation with his sight graduations.

I have not yet used 220 grain projectiles in my Krag. I don't go Hunting these days.
For Range Blasting, I have stayed with 165 grain, 168 grain Match Kings, and 180 RN projectiles.
I've dabbled with some 155 grain cast bullets and 110 grain jacketed RN for cheap practice.

I have a box of 220 grain Sierra 'Pro-Hunter' RN projectiles that I am going to try with 40 grains of WW-760.

BTW- The box of Winchester ammo, that was pictured from "1895", is Hunting ammo, not military. It was likely available for the Model 1895 Winchester, lever-gun.

The early Krag military rounds were 'jacketed' 220 grain RN projectiles.
The cartridge was a 'work in progress' with a lot of trial and error in getting a suitable propellant, and in developing non-mercuric priming, and improving bullet & jacket material.

Early cartridge cases were 'tin-plated' to improve storage longevity and counter-act effects of mercuric priming on brass.

Attached: Photo of very similar 1898 (top with cartridges) and 1896 side-plates. The tin-plated cartridge is 'Frankford Arsenal 1898' and the commercial cartridge is 'Remington-Peters'.
A picture showing the difference in side-plates: The "tenon" (orange line) on 1898 measures about .152" and the tenon on model 1896 (yellow line) measures approximately .132".
A selection of cartridges and reloads that will feed through most of my Krags.

Attachment 111001Attachment 111002Attachment 111003

[browningautorifle]

The "tenon" (orange line) on 1898 measures about .152" and the tenon on model 1896 (yellow line) measures approximately .132".

Now I see...

[jon_norstog]

Jon - or anyone else - do you have a favored load for 220RN? I've got a good starting point of the original army load by inferring across the few manuals I have.

I like 41.5 H4350 (NOT IMR 4350) behind the Hornady 200 RN and 40 4895 with the 180 RN. Both are good, solid loads that will bring down an elk. The 180 RN load chronos pretty close to the factory 180s. Neither load will blow up your gun.

I had a Remington-Lee with two locking lugs on its nickel steel bolt head and two safety lugs. I would use .308 loads in that (not max loads, but pretty stiff ones). I didn't hunt with it because it had a safety on the cocking piece. It would be OK on a stand, but no way could you get off a shot at an elk in cover before it disappeared. Unless you were wiling to carry the rifle with the safety off.

jn

[browningautorifle]

I remember something now from far back about feed issues, I had a rifle back in the '80's that fed perfectly using 150 FMJ and gave no problems...the school gun I had more recently was fussy and needed the longer profile and round nose preferably. I guess then I experienced exactly what Jon and Butlersrangers have stated. Some are fussy but they don't need something special just to function. I had one of each. No so many Krags around here...