Ross 1905 MK ll

[eliwhitley@yahoo.com]

Did the Ross rifle model 1905 MK ll ever see combat action?

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[Surpmil]

Not officially.

[NORTHOF60]

Examples have been found marked CEF (Canadian Expeditionary Force), but no indication of actual field service.

[eliwhitley@yahoo.com]

Yes I have not read anywhere where they were used in action.

[Surpmil]

As mentioned previously, there is a MkII in a museum in Calgary that had a Winchester A5 scope fitted at some point. The provenance given is that it was used by Henry Norwest in France; it certainly looks well worn.

From the extant photos of rifle teams of the period, the Ross MkII was practically the standard target rifle in Canada before WWI, and target shooting was a widespread and popular sport. The MkII was a rifle with a proven track record, the MkIII was not. It would not be surprising if some men brought their own rifles to France.

[eliwhitley@yahoo.com]

My Rifle is marked 31 BN CEF. Does that mean 31 battalion?

[Surpmil]

My Rifle is marked 31 BN CEF. Does that mean 31 battalion?

Most likely. The rifles were used for training in Canada before being sold to the USA later in the war..

[NORTHOF60]

Can you post a picture of the stock markings? Stock marked serial numbers on the 1905 Ross MK II were alpha-numerical.

[Warren]

I have a relic 1905 Mk.11 bayonet that was dug at Courcellete
Apparently the Loyal Edmonton Regiment and the Canadian Mounted Rifles had them for a while.
I check my notes and see if I can put the dates on it.

[MGMike]

...
Apparently the Loyal Edmonton Regiment and the Canadian Mounted Rifles had them for a while.
...

I will defer to Warren's scholarship; undoubtedly he knows more about this than anyone else here.

My own impression is that when the Canadian troops were hurriedly mobilized and sent overseas, most them were issued the Mark III, which by 1913 was Canada’s adopted standard. Before the troops departed, a shortage of rifles led to the addition of some 8,000 Mark II* rifles. In England the CEF then spent some months in training (of which some photos showing Mark IIs have survived).

However, by the time the CEF shipped out to France, the Mark III would likely have been issued uniformly, if for no other reasons than to avoid a logistical nightmare and because the Mark II could not be charger-loaded. Though the Mark II had a patented follower depressor that facilitated “dumping” loose cartridges into the magazine, after the British experience in the Boer War, charger-loading was regarded as well-neigh indispensable. In the absence of any period photographs showing Mark II rifles actually at the front in France, it seems almost certain that the relatively few Mark II*s that went overseas stayed in England.

M