"Parris Island, Inspection"

[Jim Tarleton]

I too have seen the larger photo, and the rifles do appear to be M1917's. I didn't make any calculations, but the ears appear to be in place, which eliminates the 03.

I also make the observation that Rollins74 must be a Petroleum Engineer.

Jim Tarleton
Registered Professional Petroleum Engineer (Texas)

[rollins74]

You are correct, sir. I am indeed a petroleum engineer.

John Rollins
Registered Professional Engineer (Texas)

[Bayonetman]

Just happened to see this discussion and thought I would throw this into the mix. Photo is of my great-uncle, Private Peter George Green, USMC. He was at Parris Island in the summer of 1918, went overseas September 1918. He was in the Port Royal Band in July and August 1918 and this photo dates from then as he is wearing the band insignia under the EGA on his campaign hat. This is one of two photos showing him with the Model 1917, the other was taken at the same time. All other photos I have of him with a rifle shows the Model 1903 and his scorebook shows he qualified with the 1903.

[5MadFarmers]

If it's any help, I have records of M1917 manuals being shipped to the USMC. The numbers are significant. I suspect I'll come across shipments of the rifles and/or bayonets before the year is out (processing a lot of documents).

Kind of pointless to ship thousands of manuals if the rifles weren't intended to follow.

[lalonguecarabine]

As a former Marine here, myself - I must say that I'm quite surprised no other Marines have noticed this before as much as we preach "attention to detail".

VERY informative. I'm new here, but I use Texas Gun Talk a bit, and the sites appear to be linked.
I like this forum too, so I think I'll stick around here as well.

[rollins74]

I recently acquired this photo of a young Marine with his M1917 rifle. He is wearing his pack, with the bayonet handle visible over his shoulder. There is no identifying information written on the back of the photo, which was mounted in a photo album. It probably was taken during his training at Parris Island. Click here for a higher-resolution image:

http://i365.photobucket.com/albums/o...fle-300dpi.jpg



An interesting thread on another forum sheds further light on the question of the Marines' usage of the M1917 rifle. Have a look at post #17 on the thread entitled "WWI Marine Weapons Questions."

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/foru...ic=111606&st=0

Per this post, Marine Corps Orders No. 20 (Series 1918) states that, due to the shortage of M1903 rifles, the Marine Corps procured M1917 rifles for use stateside. The intent was to equip all overseas troops with the M1903, necessitating the withdrawal of all M1903s from U.S. posts for issue to overseas-bound Marines and replacing those rifles with the M1917.

[Harlan (Deceased)]

Great photo rollins74. I resized it to display larger on our screens so we can see the young marine's face

[Cosine26]

Hi,
Just as an item of curiosity, what is the stigma attached to a WWI Marine using a M1917 rifle? Does he have his sword broken and get drummed out of the Corps? I believe that the M1917 was used extensively by the US Army in WWI to include the St. Miheil and the Argonne offensives and served well.
As a 16 year old, I enlisted in the Mississippi State Guard (established during WWII to replace the National Guard who were called to active duty.) I served about 16 months, rising to the rank of SGT, until joining the USN at 17 in the USN. We were issued M1917’s and used them for drill and training. I spent two weeks of abbreviated, intensive, concentrated infantry training at Camp Shelby MS in early 1944. During this training we spent extensive, intensive training in drilling with, bayonet training (using the, I believe, 16” WWI bayonets) with and firing on the rifle ranges. My fellow guardsmen were either teenagers such as myself or WWI vets who signed up to serve. We even learned to perform the “Monkey Drills” with the M1917 (Queen Anne Salute, etc,) with these long M1917. On the firing range we fired at ranges not to exceed 600 yards (I believe that 1000 yard firing had been discontinued in Army training). We were issued, as I remember it, obsolete .30M1 ammunition ,which had quite a kick until I discovered that a canteen cover slipped over the butt of the rifle would act as a recoil pad. We had no shooting jackets, only khaki shirts. With a little practice we even became a fairly proficient with the dreadful ‘cock-on-closing’ in rapid fire, and holding off to compensate for the wind. I thought the M1917 to be a satisfactory combat rifle with the best sights issued on a service rifle in WWI.
Just curious!

[P-07ShortLee]

Cosine26,


Can't give you an exact answer ( I'll let others try to do that), but the major problem with the '17 (to many people) was the lack of a windage adjustable sight and something about that making it a lesser rifle than the '03. I always thought a marksman should be able to hit with any rifle regardless of windage adjustable sights so I never really understood that aspect of it.

Other than that is was heavier, blockier and wasn't designed in the US. I suspect some or all the above were factors with some people not liking it. Although I have read of many who did like it.

Of course some people just don't like "peep" sights and others do, maybe a factor?

[Harlan (Deceased)]

Cosine26,

Other than that is was heavier, blockier and wasn't designed in the US. I suspect some or all the above were factors with some people not liking it.

I think you're correct with all, P-07ShortLee. Especially the latter. Soldiers at the time loved the 1903 because it was an 'American' rifle.

This is a quote attributed to Alvin York when he was issued a 1917. (The debate can go on and on what type rifle he actually used)

MAY 21, 1918 - LeHavre, France: So we got to France at Le Havre. There we turned in our guns and got British guns.