Security guys (in grey) inside Newark Airport

[Marty C]

Like I said, a little bitter? I will address each of your points with consideration and without emotion.

Point 1..If you knew the facts, and by your statement you do not, you would know that the Police did in fact respond to the VA tech shooting as soon as possible. the problem was two-fold, incorrection information provided as to where the shooter was and a "No-Gun" clause on campus. If you recall I stated I support carrying of firearms by qualified person's.

Point 2...You may feel safer with your "1911" but only a fool brings a pistol to a gun fight. I would prefer to call in close air support but since that is not practical then the Police Long Arm Weapons are far superior to your pistol, you know this to be true.


Point 3...Your opinion is just that, your opinion. The BDU Uniform is far more practical than the shirt and tie look. As for mask, I never wore one but in cases of undercover Officers on raids I can see where they have a place.

Point 4...I do not know how many of these Special Police Units have faced an actual gunmen or been in a firefight. I do know that the Units I trained or trained with were trained correctly by those of us who have been there. They were not just expending ammo and perhaps doing incorrect drills over and over. But again, maybe your skills are superior to the average Police Officer, maybe not I do not know.

Point 5...Again an opinion, "most I know and know of would wait until the shooting stops" is clearly an emotional and factless statement. Cowardness in something that I have rarely seen among Police Officers. In fact it is their very nature of confronting an issue that often leads them to rush into danger sometimes without a proper plan. But that is corrected with training, proper training!


The rest of your statements need not be addressed. I do not know where you live or what standards your state places on Police Training. If Police Officers act like idiots then they should be charged like idiots. That goes for all public servants alike. I am sorry if your offended at my comments. I respect your right to disagree, I know I have earned that right and enjoy taking the time to debate. But I will say it again, far too many people who think they can do it better do just that, THINK they can do it better. They never make an attempt at changing anything, they just complain over and over!

For those of you who know this verse Romans 13:4 'For he is God's minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid for he does not bear the sword in vain for he is God's minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil." It applies to those charged with keeping Law and Order. I only added this in response to Proverbs 29:23, which actually does not apply to having pride in your country, work, family or branch of service.

[Marty C]

Not to be too picky, but in response to RED, I paid for my own BDU's and most of the tactical gear I wore. I also paid for the work clothes worn by my states road dept, sewerage dept and other hard working employees. Why did I buy my own gear? Very simple answer, I wanted the best and did not want "low bidder" equipment. I hope that clears up the $$ problem. RED, you sound so bitter, that is not a good recipe for a long, happy life. Do not let a poor encounter with perhaps a non-sympathetic game warden spoil your outlook on life. File a complaint and feel better, if he was wrong then you have every right to complain.

[RED]

I'm not bitter about anything just realistic. Should I die today, I would die knowing I had a good productive and have always followed an oath I took many years ago and it goes something like this: "I will not lie, cheat, or steal, nor will I tolerate those who do."

Oh, did I mention that my son (age 45) is a Law Enforcement Officer? He talks a lot like you now. He had his lobotomy about 15 years ago. He shares the same opinion that a lot of you LEO's have that there are three kinds of people, Cops, Bad Guys, and Bad Guys that haven't been caught... yet. He and others like him are on an ego trip and I despise that. I'll tell you the same thing I told the County Sheriff when he was elected. You come to my house and knock on the door and I will invite you in for a cup of coffee. You come here and knock the door down and it will be a different reception.

You are not God no matter how much you rant and rave. Your doo stinks just like everybody else. You are the one that is bitter most likely because not every one bows and scrapes when you come around.

[Quarks]

Not to be too picky, but in response to RED, I paid for my own BDU's and most of the tactical gear I wore. I also paid for the work clothes worn by my states road dept, sewerage dept and other hard working employees. Why did I buy my own gear? Very simple answer, I wanted the best and did not want "low bidder" equipment. I hope that clears up the $$ problem. RED, you sound so bitter, that is not a good recipe for a long, happy life. Do not let a poor encounter with perhaps a non-sympathetic game warden spoil your outlook on life. File a complaint and feel better, if he was wrong then you have every right to complain.

Marty, this response is exactly what so many of the folks on this thread have been talking about!

As just one example, you say: "...do not let a poor enounter with perhaps a non-sympathetic game warden spoil your outlook on life".

Your response is arrogant & condescending. Rather than just discussing Red's comments, you wax sarcastic. And arrogant & condescending.

And before you jump all over me, check around - I have been with Jouster since it was the Civilian Marksmanship Page at Camp Perry, almost anyone here can tell you that I am a whole-hearted LEO supporter. The good ones, anyway. I respect the uniform & the job & those who do the job, just as I abhor the bad ones (few, fortunately) who do use the badge & the uniform & the gun as an ego trip. And you can't deny that there are a few. Fortunately, as noted, few, but they do exist.

You have made some excellent points throughout this entire thread. But along the way you just couldn't seem to resist getting in a subtle (& sometimes not-so-subtle) dig. It was masterfully done, for the most part, there were a lot of times when the person being insulted may not have even realized you were doing it, but doing so you were.

I appreciate the job you do. It is a dirty, hard, thankless job under the best of circumstances. And to do it right, yes, you do need to have a bit of an attitude at times. But it seems to have become so ingrained in you that you don't know (or maybe just don't care) that you exude The Attitude nearly every time you sit down at the keyboard!

Back it down a little, sir. Whether or not you realize it, you yourself are triggering many of the not-as-respectful-as-you-would-wish responses which you have gotten.

[Marty C]

Thank you for your support of Law Enforcement. I guess I just cannot resist mind games with those who react so angry to an armed Police Presence. To RED, it is a shame to speak of your son in such a manner. As far as knocking down your door? Why would the County Sheriff do such a thing RED? Unless of course you gave him. with a warrant, a reason to do such a thing? But I have an idea that your bark is worse than your bite. I think RED, that given the chance you would come to the aid of an Officer in need in a minute. And for the record, most of if not all of those who have replied even in anger most likely have spent some time focusing on their front sight. So in that regard I would welcome their Trained assistance. Now I guess it would really heat things up and get the anti-cops fired up if I mentioned how much my State pension is?? Not to mention what the govt pays me to train others to respond to violence......Oh well, that is better left unsaid!

[rayg]

I just thought I would relay some of my thoughts on this thread. I am a retired LEO and I can see were some folks may have a strong anti police attitude created probably from some negative contacts with the police. Now unless their contact was of their own doing like breaking the law. I will say that, not all LEOs should be LEOs. Officers with the attitudes that have been referrenced here, if true and not just a general anti police attitude by the writters for what ever their reasons, should not be LEOs or at least should have more training or closer supervision. Most departments attempt to screen out these type of people with many different tests before hiring. But as we all know, tests are not 100%.
2nd, the police management should be responsible for good training, monitoring and if necessary displining officers who have these attitudes. It is not hard to determine if an officers has these traits as it will show up via other officer/supervisor or citizen complaints and should they be delt with.
How having said this, sometimes a officer developes a negative attitude after so many years because he has to deal with negativity every day. The type of negativity that is not necessary found in other occupations such as , listening and responding to citizen complaints all day long, Folks caught violating the law not happy with getting caught, physical altercations with bad guys some times, negative attitudes toward them by a certain segment of the population and of course the lack of understanding by the public of what and why they had to do what they did. Officers tend to vent their fustration and anger as Red mentioned, such as it's us and the bad guys. Realizing of course that this is the envioment they do work in that most citizens don't understand.
In closing, polce officers are the same as the general population as far as personaities and attitudes are concerned. It's hoped that the police administrations can make sure they monitor their officers to reduce those type of attitudes that give their department or law enforcement in general a bad name. The far majority of officers I have come in contact with during my career were good people who did their jobs to the best of their ability, were respectful to people and were the type who bent over backwards to help a citizen in need. Ray

[ntd34]

Well said. Totally agree

[Bill Hollinger]

Fellas, I think we've gone just about as far as we can go with this thread. I really don't think all the ***-for-tat is necessary and only causes issues between the family. And we are all family, the family of gun enthusiast. For those that don't know, I've been involved in law enforcement for close to 20 years now. I've been in the black BDUs doing room entries and building clearing. There is a lot of the LE world that is misunderstood and misinterpreted just like we misunderstand and misinterpret people in the civilian community. For all those that are perhaps less LEO friendly, I don't care what it was that put you in this mindset. The important thing is that we (LEO) do our very best to listen to you, understand you and bring you to our corner because after all, ultimately we are all in this together. The thing I ask is that you try the same.

Ray, thank you for a very good and well thought post.

So, if we are going to continue the ***-for-tat and the good cop, bad cop posts we can just close the thread and move on to something like Milsurps