INLAND VS SAGINAW

[EddieM]

I have a couple but not early the level of expertise that most of the other participants here have. Most of what I have learned came from information I picked up from other contributors in this site.

Nice Singer.
Wich M1s do you have?
Eddie

[DaveHH]

Almost all of the parts are marked with the company who made them and the company they were made for As in "EW" on a Winchester magazine catch. Eaton Pond for Winchester. If they were made by the company, they would just have a W. This spelled the death for plenty of original carbines because people would swap parts that they thought were wrong with parts that they thought were right. The carbine would then be passed off as an original or stated to be "Corrected" depending upon the honesty of the owner. Problem is that there were so many parts that were borrowed company to company that nobody really had evidence to all of this integration, some but not all. A lot of this was done by perfectly honest individuals who were just into the hobby and enjoyed the puzzle. As they say, "It is what it is". This type of part swapping led to a whole industry making fake parts. The end result being most newcomers don't know a fake from a genuine part and now there are a lot of fake parts on carbines or incorrect parts on carbines. Example: Winchester hammers, genuine Winchester hammers have a single small W, White Sewing Machine Co made replacement carbine hammers marked with a W, a larger and canted W. These went into a lot of Winchesters as genuine parts. A person who knows also looks for the subtle differences that Winchester did to their hammers and recognize a White from a genuine part. Remember that some companies made very few parts, Quality Hardware made ONE part, the receiver, everything else was either made by an outside agency or supplied by another company. The average carbine owner today will probably just leave things as they are. They are too valuable to screw around with.

[EddieM]

Almost all of the parts are marked with the company who made them and the company they were made for As in "EW" on a Winchester magazine catch. Eaton Pond for Winchester. If they were made by the company, they would just have a W. This spelled the death for plenty of original carbines because people would swap parts that they thought were wrong with parts that they thought were right. The carbine would then be passed off as an original or stated to be "Corrected" depending upon the honesty of the owner. Problem is that there were so many parts that were borrowed from company to company that nobody really had evidence to all of this integration, some but not all. A lot of this was done by perfectly honest individuals who were just into the hobby and enjoyed the puzzle. As they say, "It is what it is". This type of part swapping led to a whole industry making fake parts. The end result being most newcomers don't know a fake from a genuine part and now there are a lot of fake parts on carbines or incorrect parts on carbines. Example: Winchester hammers, genuine Winchester hammers have a single small W, White Sewing Machine Co made replacement carbine hammers marked with a W, a larger and canted W. These went into a lot of Winchesters as genuine parts. A person who knows also looks for the subtle differences that Winchester did to their hammers and recognize a White from a genuine part. Remember that some companies made very few parts, Quality Hardware made ONE part, the receiver, everything else was either made by an outside agency or supplied by another company. The average carbine owner today will probably just leave things as they are. They are too valuable to screw around with.

Hello Dave,

Thank you, I really appreciate your nice and complete reply, I'm an enthusiast especially from old guns, I really enjoy learning especially from cool fellows.

Eddie

[Wineman]

Eddie,

I did not post anything about barrel bands, but here is what I know:

The first versions of the M1 Carbine used a skinny metal band to hold the barrel to the stock, the screw had a different orientation (up and down). This proved to be barely adequate. The Type 2 band was like the first one but wider and the screw shorter and went left to right. At some point there was a need to mount a bayonet and the M3 "Trench Knife" was modified and the next barrel band had the width of a type 2 and then had the bayonet lug extending out about 6". I believe that the Iwo Jima memorial at Arlington National Cemetery has a carbine with a Type 3 band but the actual photos shows non bayonet band M1 Carbines in Marines hands. Why anyone would want to charge with a bayonet and M1 Carbine is beyond me. However, the bayonet band is better for accuracy and most rifles post war when rebuilt, had the bayonet band added. Some unscrupulous sellers take type 3 bands and cut them off to make them look like type 2 bands, buyer beware.

I cant believe how much these cost today, but a piece of history does have some value. Like I said earlier, find a nice clean example, with a good muzzle and not beat to hell. All parts were designed to interchange, so if you want a shooter, it really does not matter. I would rather have a mixmaster that I can shoot and not worry about, than a "correct" (the military did not care about correct) rifle that costs three times as much and has just been a labor of love for someone. JMHO.

Dave

[painter777]

Barrel Assembly.

Barrel Bands about 1/2 way down the page:

The U.S. Caliber .30 Carbines - Barrel Manufacturers

[EddieM]

Eddie,

I did not post anything about barrel bands, but here is what I know:

The first versions of the M1 Carbine used a skinny metal band to hold the barrel to the stock, the screw had a different orientation (up and down). This proved to be barely adequate. The Type 2 band was like the first one but wider and the screw shorter and went left to right. At some point there was a need to mount a bayonet and the M3 "Trench Knife" was modified and the next barrel band had the width of a type 2 and then had the bayonet lug extending out about 6". I believe that the Iwo Jima memorial at Arlington National Cemetery has a carbine with a Type 3 band but the actual photos shows non bayonet band M1 Carbines in Marines hands. Why anyone would want to charge with a bayonet and M1 Carbine is beyond me. However, the bayonet band is better for accuracy and most rifles post war when rebuilt, had the bayonet band added. Some unscrupulous sellers take type 3 bands and cut them off to make them look like type 2 bands, buyer beware.

I cant believe how much these cost today, but a piece of history does have some value. Like I said earlier, find a nice clean example, with a good muzzle and not beat to hell. All parts were designed to interchange, so if you want a shooter, it really does not matter. I would rather have a mixmaster that I can shoot and not worry about, than a "correct" (the military did not care about correct) rifle that costs three times as much and has just been a labor of love for someone. JMHO.

Dave

Hello Dave,

Very cool stuff about the bayonet band, thank you to share.
Now I have some doubts:

- All the bayonet bands are from post-war?
- How this band can help the accuracy?

Regards
Eddie

[M94/14]

Eddie

Bayonet bands and stocks etc. are all covered in this document.

If shooting your carbine, this is worth reading, it covers all aspects necessary for accuracy.

http://thecmp.org/wp-content/uploads...Notes_2007.pdf

[tenOC]

Rockola is one of the primary manufacturers. They're very popular but IP was a prime contractor that got their contract canceled before any Carbines got accepted, so now they're more expensive due to rarity. UN-QUALITY was a subcontractor for Quality Hardware and are much harder to find.