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I want to see the one Larry Potterfield got.
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07-28-2021 12:34 PM
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One? he likely set aside one of each. I recall reading they all went through at least one US refurb in Europe before the Italians got them. I doubt any of them had original flip sights - maybe someone will jump on here and correct me. I also read somewhere there was no paper trail or other knowledge of exactly how the Italian national police ever obtained them.
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Originally Posted by
ssgross
One? he likely set aside one of each.
Yea I was trying to be ironic. Or sarcastic however one would look at it. I'm just jelious. It would be nice to have the first shot.
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I bet if we email midwayusa, they would could kindly get him to supply a pic of the best-of-the-best in this lot. Is Midway a sponsor of milsurps?
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Originally Posted by
ssgross
I suppose there is money to be made putting on a good fake flip sight and selling to a novice buyer. I like mine as it is and for what it is, with all it's service history.
What usually happens is new people put a fake flip on their Carbine and think it looks sorta ok. As time goes on they realize that to experienced people it looks pretty wrong.
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Years ago, BQ pointed out that when the Depots changed to type 2 and 3 sights they were supposed to retain the flips for future possible use. Maybe there is a huge supply somewhere?
I never could understand the logic of bitching about a greatly improved rear sight? How a beat to heck, jammed in fake piece of Chinese crap was so cool to the eye and brain. A mod that completely screws up whatever the depot did to make the adjustable shoot dead on.
Last edited by DaveHH; 07-29-2021 at 01:20 PM.
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Originally Posted by
Jim__W
Here it is in it's new stock and hand guard. Numrich stock was a perfect fit.
Yes Very nice stock. A good deep cleaning would reveal much more of that beautiful figuring.
I'd be using it also...... Congrats
Charlie-Painter777
A Country Has No Greater Responsibility Than To Care For Those Who Served...
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Let us know what you find
Originally Posted by
Ben Cartwright
Stock only marking I could find is a "V" in the receiver well
Originally Posted by
Ben Cartwright
what is the "V" in the receiver well?
@Ben,
A couple pictures of your stock's wood bridge and just forward of the bridge to see the size router bit used to clear out the Op Slide channel could help ID it.
It's hard to tell from your pictures what maker your Stock is. Trying to narrow it down we can see it's a Type II High Wood Oval cut Oiler Slot.
The bulky front nose style is similar to WRA stocks. WRA Stocks are often found with a letter or number on the inside right shelf along and sometimes on the top of the cross wood bridge.
1st: See if there are 3 holes under the Butt Plate. If there are 3 we can narrow it down to these makers with 3 holes who made Type II Hi-Wood stocks-
WRA, SC-B, SC-U, M-U, BR-B........... J and SA stocks are 3 hole but did not make Hi-Woods.
2nd: This link will list 3 hole stock makers: https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=73123&page=1
3rd: WRA and M-U stocks (Marlin made for Underwood) feel and look familiar, both having 3 holes, thick wristed, bulky nose and often have a tapered leading edge at the front of the left side slingwell. WRA used a smaller, less aggressive router bit to clear out the channel inside for the Op Slide box.
4th: Look this link over for help seeing WRA STOCK traits: https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=46635
Lastly inside the left slingwell:
WRA will show 3 cutting passes with the middle one being more narrow than the top and bottom passes.
Marlin will also show 3 cutting passes but they are relatively the same width, example pic below you can use to compare to the WRA pic in WRA STOCK traits link above.
M-U Sling Well Cutting Passes:
Charlie-Painter777
A Country Has No Greater Responsibility Than To Care For Those Who Served...
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Originally Posted by
Ben Cartwright
I agree with you, I like these guns because they came straight from the
Italian Army or Police and before that the US Army, should not have had any bubbas changing parts. I want to find out all I can of my rifle but feel it is "original as released from service" (not factory).
I think with enough people documenting these, in the configuration they got them from Midway, we can narrow down the most likely versus least likely journey for this batch of carbines. I'll come back to this.
Originally Posted by
Ben Cartwright
I don't mind what parts might have been swapped out as I think, but could be wrong, that that was done durring or after WWII by the U.S. or by Italy after they got it for the Army. I could be wrong but I think that the Midway carbines are "as they came from storage" and not played around with by the importer/Midway/ or some other owner. My Dad's K-Bar he carried on Saipan (Bronze Star) and Iwo Jima (survived) is a case in point, you can't prove its history but I was given it by him and he told me the story.
Amen. I have my dad's K-Bar as well. Same deal except his only somewhat hot zone was the airfield in Operation Beleager. There's no way to prove it was his other than my word. So it goes.
I got my Midway second hand, but it seemed to me the metal refinishing was not recent. I'm not 100% convinced the importer didn't have these cleaned and assembled or some such operation, but do think its more likely they did nothing or minimal cleaning.
Originally Posted by
tenOC
I feel confident that Midway Carbines are already being presented online in pics with parts swapped by buyers and, stocks being the easiest thing swapped.
Originally Posted by
Ben Cartwright
tenOC
My
M1 with # 1211xxx has the type 3 bayonet lug adjustable sights flip safety, not I took it apart and at first could read the stamp on the trigger group, turned out to be Inland. It came from
CMP in 2016 so I have no idea of its history. Not sure if CMP got them from the private sector or from imports or where, no idea, same with my CMP from 2009. Wish I knew more about their history.
The trails of carbines to DCM and CMP are generally known, just not their individual deep back story. People can help you with getting a little further with those carbines.
Originally Posted by
DaveHH
I would wager that it shoots lights out since that type 3 rear sight was installed at an armory, not pounded in backwards by Joe Smokem in his garage.
Originally Posted by
Ben Cartwright
DaveHH
Thank you very much, I AM very happy with the purchase, it is a very nice looking carbine and I put what I think is an original sling on it, not sure if it is original as no markings I can find but it is faded and soft from years of use by someone.
Whatacountry has surplus Korean era (D-tip) if you are OK with a non-WW2 era sling. There are also other slings used at various times and organizations, including the mystery of what the Caribieneri were using in the 1970s.
See https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=74403
Originally Posted by
Ben Cartwright
Nope. I don't want to "correct" it. I won't do that to my M1 as I am keeping it as it left service and I got it.
I can't say I'm doing the same with mine. I bought mine for shooting in matches and have already changed a couple internals including a type 1 extractor.
However I like your thinking. The configuration its in is a record of its service and I appreciate the curators approach.
Originally Posted by
ssgross
I think you are right. All of these went through the initial refurb and lost their sight. I suppose there is money to be made putting on a good fake flip sight and selling to a novice buyer. I like mine as it is and for what it is, with all it's service history.
This is exactly what happened to mine. A fake flip was installed (backwords) on mine by someone who thought he could restore it to WW2 appearence and resell it ot re-enactors (as he had done with a number of Garands). He apparently couldn't understand why I wanted the Type 3 rear sight or why I would return his flip sight (which I have no use for).
He himself got taken with a faked C-tip sling. Who changed the sling swivel is a mystery but its possible he got it with a bent one and so he did that too.
I think we can collectively figure out a little more about these carbines by pooling our information. Just looking over the things have been publicly posted or reported we know: that some have a unique butt plate
some of have bent sling swivels (all type 1 ?) were some replaced ??
all seem to have received a black finish on the exterior metal.
None of the Midways so far show FAT stamps
Its my gut feeling based on this, that this batch came through a different journey than the returns that went through FAT refurbishment. I think its possible these came out of US Army stores already in Europe, possibly including many repaired or in-service overhauled weapons. I do not beleive they went into storage in the early 1950s, although it is possible they were received by Italian military as early as 1944.
Italian M1 Carbine info and Requests - The Carbine Collector's Club - Page 1
Last edited by Matt_X; 11-24-2021 at 10:30 AM.
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The guy in that pic must have a "bionic" left thumb!
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