o I need to find some 5/64" steel rivets somewhere
Look on Ebay. There is a guy who makes/sells steel rivets of all sizes for making medieval armor. I ordered from him to fabricate my Krag hand guard clips...lemme find the seller...here you go. loveduckleather https://www.ebay.com/usr/loveduckleather If you need what he doesn't have, shoot him a message and he likely be able to make it happen for you.
The sporting barrels are completely different. Thinner and tapered. The riot and trench are almost a straight taper and thick.
Actually, on the Model 12, the sporting and riot barrels taper. The Model 12 trench gun barrels do not taper. That is why when the Military converted some Model 12 riot guns to trench guns they had to use a sleeve on the muzzle end of the barrel to make the bayonet adaptor fit properly.
I took my original adapter and the homemade heat shield to the local shop here. He looked it over and suggested that heads of the steel rivets were probably inserted from inside and peened over on top of the adapter. My thoughts are that original examples look a little too uniform to be peened over but inserted from the outside top of the adapter. What he said does seem to make sense too though.... I can't really tell for certain.
Anyway he didn't didn't have any steel rivets and couldn't attach it so I need to find some 5/64" steel rivets somewhere and if so I think I may be able to eventually attach it myself.
I'm curious if the original trench gun barrels were slightly thicker to compensate for the grooves for the adapter screws.
Dick
---------- Post added at 01:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:57 PM ----------
The sporting barrels are completely different. Thinner and tapered. The riot and trench are almost a straight taper and thick.
Thank Jim...I forgot about that - do you know if the grooves for the adapter screws compromise the barrel strength on a sporting barrel as long they're not over done?
if the grooves for the adapter screws compromise the barrel strength on a sporting barrel
Why would they? This ain't goin' to war and I doubt you'll really overuse it... I've never heard of one going to pieces whilst in use.
Originally Posted by Tom Doniphon
That is why when the Military converted some Model 12 riot guns to trench guns they had to use a sleeve on the muzzle end of the barrel to make the bayonet adaptor fit properly.
Only reason I asked about the barrel strength was just as a possible consideration.....I'm not that experienced and all it might take is one time for whatever reason to be enough to destroy a lot of hard work and a nice gun.
---------- Post added at 08:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:55 PM ----------
Originally Posted by ssgross
Look on Ebay. There is a guy who makes/sells steel rivets of all sizes for making medieval armor. I ordered from him to fabricate my Krag hand guard clips...lemme find the seller...here you go. loveduckleather https://www.ebay.com/usr/loveduckleather If you need what he doesn't have, shoot him a message and he likely be able to make it happen for you.
After studying the original photos I'm not at all sure how the rivets were attached now. The heads could have been inserted inside the adapter but then it seems the holes would need to be counter sunk from the inside wall, and I totally don't understand how that could be done. So, they must have been inserted from the top and a mandrel inserted inside the adapter to flatten the shank and the heads dressed with a file. Then the inside would have to reamed out to smooth everything out. That's all I can see it done - maybe silver soldered as well for added strength(?) First item is to find the rivets and go form there.
That photo above the left rivet looks peened, and not ground flush. After peening, it would be fairly easy to make them look perfect..chamfer the hole in the heat shield to leave enough meat on the rivet, then when you file it flush it will be perfectly round like the hole. much harder to prepare the inside, but would be need to be done no matter how you inserted the rivet. if the holes are aligned both sides, you could insert rod through one side to drive a tool against the inside of the other to create a recess. If not, then maybe some kind of pull through tool was used?
What does the inside of your original adapter look like? is the hole flush or chamfered on the inside? In your case I'd worry more about function then duplicating the original method. When you finish filing/sanding/grinding, the outside will look right no matter what direction the rivet goes.
What does the inside of your original adapter look like? is the hole flush or chamfered on the inside? In your case I'd worry more about function then duplicating the original method. When you finish filing/sanding/grinding, the outside will look right no matter what direction the rivet goes.
those look to have a chamfer for part of the head to reside. When bucking a rivet, the shank will expand and "flow" to fill the space and tighten the joint provided it was clamped together tight. insert rivets from inside. tap in a slightly tapered mandrel to hold it the rivet extra tight in the hole, and peen over the head from the outside. when you drill the hole in the shield, be sure to bevel it well...like a flush rivet on an airplane. when you grind it smooth, it will become as perfect as the circle and the bevel will give it enough meat to hold. That's how I did my krag handgaurd clips. much thinner metal than your shield, but a slight chamfer was enough. now, a hand guard clip doesn't have to be as strong as your heat shield, but same principal I think. When tapping the rivet by hand, you can tell and feel how tight the joint is becoming by the sound of the hammer. On the hand guard, tops on my test pieces would gradually increase in pitch until "pop" the wood split from the rivet expanding.
Measure carefully!
That's such thoughtful info and I'll try to follow it - thank you. I'm a little familiar with aircraft riveting and understand some of what you say. I orders some 3/32" x 5/32" steel rivets from eBay last night and will wait till they arrive and try to go from there. I' not sure where to come with a the correct mandrel at this point but will try to find one. I have a few connections at the local airport.
Thank you again...I'll get back soon as I find out more to work with.
Originally Posted by Madcap
hand guard clips...lemme find the seller...here you go. loveduckleather https://www.ebay.com/usr/loveduckleather If you need what he doesn't have, shoot him a message and he likely be able to make it happen for you.
PM
