Winchester did rivet the heat shield to the adaptor. They then filed the rivets down. If you look at a WWI 1897 heat shield you can't see the rivets on an original condition gun. On the WWII Model 97 and Model 12 trench guns you can see the rivets. They apparently did not take the time and effort to file and smooth the rivets down like they did on the WWI guns. I could show you photos of the difference, but I don't know how to post photos on this webste.
but I don't know how to post photos on this webste.
Click the "Go Advanced" button when drafting your reply, then there is a paper-clip attachment icon that will allow you to upload photos. There is also a sticky-thread in each forum with instructions.
I would be very interested to see your photos here, as well as some for your informative response to my 1897 buttplates question (sorry MadCap for plugging my project )
I’ve attached the following Winchester trench gun photos of the heat shield rivets:
1. WWI Model 1897 adaptor (this gun is in about 98% condition. See how the rivets have been ground down flush with the heat shield so that when blued they do not show).
2. WWII Model 97 adaptor (notice how the rivets are visible).
3. WWII Model 12 adaptor (this gun is an unissued Model 12 in about 99% condition. The rivets are also visible).
Fascinating. Thanks Tom! (and Jim!).
Curiously, the first 1897 has muzzle roughly flush with the bayonet guide. The second 1897 it's proud, and the model 12 it's recessed. This means many of the "rules" the internet experts peddle are suspect (Say it isn't so!). In particular this one https://gunmagwarehouse.com/blog/the...o-get-scammed/
I greedily would love to see many more pictures of these guns. With repro and fakes abounding, and pictures of verifiable originals hard to find or confirm, milsurps is the perfect place to discuss, as I trust pictures of our members' guns much more than the above link. Maybe a new thread if Tom is willing? I have a copy of the old Poyer (not the newer coffee table book) and Canfield on the way (knowing that there may be a few "softer facts" there too).
Winchester did rivet the heat shield to the adaptor. They then filed the rivets down. If you look at a WWI 1897 heat shield you can't see the rivets on an original condition gun. On the WWII Model 97 and Model 12 trench guns you can see the rivets. They apparently did not take the time and effort to file and smooth the rivets down like they did on the WWI guns. I could show you photos of the difference, but I don't know how to post photos on this webste.
Thanks Tom, I was pretty sure after studying some original M12 heat shields they were riveted. I plan on taking the adapter and homemade heat shield pieces to a local shop here to have them attached. After talking to the shop owner earlier in this project, he mentioned he's a US Military collector so I'm hopeful he can get the job done.
I'll post whatever the results later on...thanks for all information and help form other members as well.
The photos Jim posted for me are all from original trench guns. That it how the bayonet adaptors fit on the different guns. On the WWI 1897 trench guns the bayonet adaptor stud is flush with the muzzle of the gun. On the WWII 97 trench guns the mounting stud extends beyond the muzzle. Not sure why this is. Perhaps it has something to do with the fact that the WWI guns were solid frame and the WWII guns were takedown models. On the Model 12 trench guns the end of the bayonet adaptor that slips over the barrel is flush with the muzzle with the bayonet mounting stud protrruding beyond the muzzle. See attached photo. Notice how the muzzle of the barrel is in the white.
Last edited by Tom Doniphon; 08-23-2022 at 01:05 PM.
I took my original adapter and the heat shield to the local shop here. He looked it over and suggested that heads of the steel rivets were probably inserted from inside and peened over on top of the adapter. My thoughts are that original examples look a little too uniform to be peened over but inserted from the outside top of the adapter. What he said does seem to make sense too though.
Anyway he didn't didn't have any steel rivets and couldn't attach it so I need to find some 5/64" steel rivets somewhere and if so I think I may be able to eventually attach it myself.
I'm curious if the original trench gun barrels were slightly thicker to compensate for the grooves for the adapter screws.
PM
Originally Posted by Tom Doniphon
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