I remember when we used to shoot them.

[dogtag]

You can't overload with BP. The cases were meant to be full.
Of course, if you stuff in 4F, all bets are off.

[Teleoceras]

Dogtag:

You can't overload with BP. The cases were meant to be full.
Of course, if you stuff in 4F, all bets are off.

With a muzzleloader it is very easy to overload which could have painful or fatal consequences.

You are correct about 4Fg though.

[dogtag]

Maybe you missed the word "CASES"
We were talking about Cap'n'ball pistols and BP Cartridge, not muzzleloaders.

[Teleoceras]

Dogtag:

Maybe you missed the word "CASES"
We were talking about Cap'n'ball pistols and BP Cartridge, not muzzleloaders.

No, I was referring to the phrase "You can't overload with BP".

[Embalmer]

Ive seen someone blow apart their stock with using just blanks. Idiot put the equivilent of 280 grains of 2f down the barrel of a repro 42 springfield with a patch, and fired. recoil almost knocked him over, and shattered the stock. Was damn lucky I wasnt the one next to him, or I would have bayoneted him myself. Though think the other filemates did take care of him, and far as I know ws booted from the hobby.

[John Sukey (Deceased)]

John,

My dad died in 1979….I did most of my shooting while he was alive.
He was more of a shooter…..I became more of a collector.

Our gun laws became more restrictive in Canada since then.
I have not encouraged my two sons to become gun guys.

My collection has gone in "wildly different" directions since 1979…but U.S. Civil War stuff remains at the top of my weakness.

You are right…I should probably get back to the range…although in Canada the guns shown below will probably never see the range????

Having said that....when and if I go back... it will probably be with a .22 cal. pistol or rifle?

David

Brought back memories. In high school, MANY MANY Moons ago, I was offered a Sturmgeschutz. Actualy allowed to take it home, but had to give it back cause I couldn't come up with the $35.

Was offered the second gun for $125 years later, but NO paperwork, I knew better by then. The other one I had to give up was the 20mm aircraft cannon because my father wouldn't let me bring it in the house What the heck, it was ONLY 8ft long and a bit rusty.

[Patrick Chadwick]

First, a word of caution. There is a lot of nonsense purveyed with regard to flintlock and percussion pistols and rifles, some of it dangerous, starting with the claim "you cannot overload" them. And the "dogtag" quote has already caused confusion as well as being dangerously simplistic, as anyone can confirm who ever stuffed a Martini-Henry case full of whatever powder.

For reliable information on the safe loading and shooting of rifles and pistols, I recommend that you contact your national Muzzle Loaders Association, who might also be able to put you in touch with someone who can make a better "hands-on" evaluation than I can from photographs. For Canada, a good start would be the Canadian MLAIC representative Ed Martin, at oromac@sympatico.ca.

Rifle with "Joseph Manton Warranted" marked on lockplate.
The rifle appears to be what is termed a "drum and nipple" conversion of a flintlock. A pity, as it would be much more valuable in its original condition. Note that the angle of the nipple does not match well to the face of the hammer. The marking "Joseph Manton Warranted" does not, unfortunately, prove anything, as label falsification was rife before modern concepts of copyright were developed and enforced. I am sceptical about the origin of that lock (hence the recommendation above).

As for "Wheeler & Son", there are two entries in Stöckel:

Wheeler & Son, Waterville, Maine, USA, recorded 1877-83 (too late for a single-shot percussion pistol in the land of Colt, Remington etc)
and
Wheeler & Son, Birmingham, GB, 1814-41 and again 1828-43 (a more likely period for the pistol).
Look for a proof mark on the barrel! Is the barrel rifled? If so, most definitely not a duelling pistol. In the days when duelling was actually practised, the pistols were all smooth-bored. Rifling was "not cricket".

However, it was common for those with the necessary funds to purchase pistols intended for personal protection in pairs, for the very simple reason that the typical shooter has two hands. So the non-historical habit has grown up, encouraged by dealers and sellers, of calling all paired flintlock or percussion pistols "duelling pistols". In fact, you will find just about any pistol so labelled in the cause of attracting the buyer's attention! It's the same sort of nonsense as the habit of describing any and every muzzle loader as "with a possible Civil War connection".

Patrick

[drm2m]

Patrick,

I believe the Wheeler is Birmingham manufactured.
It is a smooth bore and not a duelling pistol.

I suspected that the Joseph Manton "Warranted" lock was purchased by the manufacturer of the rifle and installed on the piece he built.

I do not believe it was a converted flintlock.

Manton sold "Warranted" locks for this purpose.....I think?

David

[Patrick Chadwick]

I wonder if we are thinking about the same Joseph Manton.
I was thinking of the famous London flintlock maker, 1766-1835. From 1822 -26 his sons worked with him, and the firm operated as "Manton and Sons". Joseph actually spent some time in prison for debt (1828), and the firm went bankrupt in 1829. Hence my wonder at a percussion lock marked "Joseph Manton warranted".

However, there was another Joseph Manton - in Montreal! Recorded from 1860-71 at 46 Great St. James, subsequently in Craig St. until 1894.

I humbly suggest that the Canadian Joseph Manton is a much more likely supplier of a percussion lock on a Canadian rifle.

(All info from "Stöckel", German edition of 1979, P.753)

Patrick

[drm2m]

Patrick,

Good question....I am sure I don't know.
This rifle was purchased in Montreal years ago ?????

David