Hello, we can list under items I bought because they peaked my curiosity and hurt my wallet. I purchased this about a year ago. In my collection I really wanted an early Savage No4 mk1 (no star) with the button cocking piece etc. I stumbled across this hiding on an auction site and picked it up. It appears to be an early Savage with low serial, early parts, 5 groove barrel, and the puzzling part- a T stamp. It has what appears to be the correct pads with good craftsmanship installing the pads and the cheek piece seems to have been on there for 80 years now. It has the serial in the end of the forearm and has 11 under the wrist. No scope numbering and a T struck in the receiver. I compared it to my T that was authenticated by many including forum members and the T strike looks the same. Here are photos my apologies for the glare I have the metal greased to prevent further rust spots. I can post the serial if not legible. Thanks for help in advance. I did a reenactment with a gent with a similar serial number Savage no4T with matching no32 scope, and chest and all. I would say it is a less T rifle but the striking on the receiver has me puzzled.
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I'll take a stab at this. At first glance, it does appear to be a Savage No4 Mk 1, less telescope. I am skeptical of the T stamp, but I'll show both sides of the coin and let you make a determination.
Your rifle looks to be a legitimate conversion, even though someone did bugger the scope pad screws a little. Is there an "S 51" at the bottom of the stock, behind the grip? And I agree the T looks to be the correct font. But, as we all know, this is something that can easily be reproduced. Just look at the quality of these "repros" coming out of Poland:
As you can see, its not too hard to reproduce a simple serif'd "T."
As far as I can recall, I have only seen two Savage T's, properly stamped, and wearing a scope number on the wrist. Both of these rifles appeared to have been ex-Indian service rifles. Both rifles were shown here on this forum some years back, and both showed signs of hard service use.
My gut is telling me that stamp was added well after your rifle left service. I'm basing that on the very few Savages (with T mark) I have seen on these forums. I'm also basing that on these three recent auctions of three obviously faked No4(t)'s listed under the commercial sales and auction gossip forum. While these are obviously back-yard gunsmith jobs, there are those out there that re-stamp, re-configure, and ruin fine rifles all for the sake of fleecing one out of their money.
Back in the early 90's, I had Savage, less-telescope, that looked nearly identical to yours, but was not T stamped. While this gets you no closer to an answer, I hope it has given you a little more information to decide for yourself. The T-less rifles are still beautiful, and the few I've owned are wonderful shooters.
Hello, we can list under items I bought because they peaked my curiosity and hurt my wallet. I purchased this about a year ago. In my collection I really wanted an early Savage No4 mk1 (no star) with the button cocking piece etc. I stumbled across this hiding on an auction site and picked it up. It appears to be an early Savage with low serial, early parts, 5 groove barrel, and the puzzling part- a T stamp. It has what appears to be the correct pads with good craftsmanship installing the pads and the cheek piece seems to have been on there for 80 years now. It has the serial in the end of the forearm and has 11 under the wrist. No scope numbering and a T struck in the receiver. I compared it to my T that was authenticated by many including forum members and the T strike looks the same. Here are photos my apologies for the glare I have the metal greased to prevent further rust spots. I can post the serial if not legible. Thanks for help in advance. I did a reenactment with a gent with a similar serial number Savage no4T with matching no32 scope, and chest and all. I would say it is a less T rifle but the striking on the receiver has me puzzled.
I would recount the grooves in your barrel. I would be surprised if it isn't a 6 groove.
Why would the "T" stamp be puzzling? Although your pictures are not very clear, it appears you have a real Savage No4MkI(T).
While your butt stock doesn't appear to have a scope number, is it the original but stock or has it been sanded out? It certainly appears to have been sanded and stained.
“There are invisible rulers who control the destinies of millions. It is not generally realized to what extent the words and actions of our most influential public men are dictated by shrewd persons operating behind the scenes.”
Looks real enough to me. Horrible sanding to wood & gobby repaint to metalwork, but real all the same. As smle addict said, we could debate when the receiver side wall T was applied & we'd never know for sure unless someone owned up to doing it! It could have been done in service - plenty of other 4T's that lacked the 'official' set of markings got 'regularised' in service, presumably by judicious armourers. But who knows.....? I'd give it house room if the price was right.
It could have had a scope fitted but as Lee Enfield mentions, the wood looks to have been pretty extensively sanded, so any scope serial could have been lost, as could the S51.
I have come across 0C4345 before, & used to own 0C4335. The latter was an EFD conversion which I foolishly parted with before I appreciated its true significance.
Thank you all for the input. I do not think it was faked as I really did pick it up for cheap by todays standards. I agree that the stock does appear refinished but it does not appear that the T was added. I thought a savage with a T with too rare to come across. The way I bought it was by no means presented as a rare sniper I do not think the seller knew much of what is was other than an enfield with no magazine. I appreciate the feedback and will treat it like a real piece of history and attempt to restore it to former sniper glory. Do you recommend removing the varnish and doing a linseed oil finish? I am scared to ruin the bedding if I take the stock off. Also would it most likely of had a No32. mk1 scope attached originally? I am currently out on work but will update with better photos when I return
---------- Post added at 09:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:05 PM ----------
How did you know it was an EFD conversion? My hope upon my original research was that it was an EFD conversion and that is why it was missing the H and H markings but I have no idea of the EFD markings. Those serial numbers are very close to that of my own. I was gambling and thought I would put a weaver K4 on it if it was poorly done but I am inspired to restore it now.
Personally I'd doubt it is an RSAF Enfield conversion as the configuration of the front pad was slightly different on the "trials" No.4(T)s done there and there were certain inspection marks on the pad(s) that AFAIK were never seen on the H&H production.
The "T" stamp was sometimes added retroactively by armourers from what we see on surviving "trials" No.4(T)s., sometimes also the TR marks, but never the S51 AFAWK.
I wouldn't be surprised if your rifle has been fully restocked, which would explain the missing S51, but it may not have been. Have you removed the butt to see if the rifle number is on the "tongue"?
Photos edited in seconds with FastStone Image Viewer, an excellent freeware program - I recommend it.
Last edited by Surpmil; 11-03-2022 at 02:33 AM.
“There are invisible rulers who control the destinies of millions. It is not generally realized to what extent the words and actions of our most influential public men are dictated by shrewd persons operating behind the scenes.”
Sorry, in case of confusion, in my previous post I said that the rifle I used to own 0C4335 was a RSAF conversion. I did not mean the OP's rifle, which is the subject of this thread, was a RSAF Enfield conversion. From my limited experience the vast majority of Savage rifles were converted by H&H & I have only seen about three in a lot of years that I suspect were converted by Enfield. I concluded that 0C4335 was an Enfield set up as it bore a plethora of EFD acceptance marks (like Trials T's) yet none of the typical marks associated with H&H. It also had a Trials/No1 Mk6 era magazine in it, & one or two Trials era parts on it. These components appeared to have been there a long time........Can't remember for sure now, but the barrel may have been EFD 1930's as well.
Thank you to all for your posts. I took a black light to the rifle and I think there is a semblance of the S51 and potentially a scope number on the wrist. Would any scopes have started with an 8? I think the next step is to remove the stock and see if I remove the shiny lacker finish what it looks like. Also if anyone has a recommendation of where to get an original no32 scope please PM I have a WTB posted but have not had much luck in my search. Other than taking care in the removal of the stock do I need to worry about the bedding when I put a fresh coat of raw linseed oil on it? I plan to hit it with some 0000 steel wool and acetone then oil after.
PM
Originally Posted by EnfieldC
